351W EFI Choices

[Z Bronco]

I have been reading and researching many different 351W options for EFI, and I thought I would post some questions here for the EFI gurus. I want an EFI setup that will be reliable and hopefully improve MPG, even if only by a little. My motor has a mild RV cam, early heads, with 9.2 to 1 compression if I remember correctly. For under hood clearance there is a 2" body lift and an old Duff hood bubble. My bronco is driven both off road and on the street. On long adventures a M416 military trailer is towed full of camp gear which was very helpful on my trip from Oregon to North Carolina and back last summer. I do wheel on those long trips and remote camp, so reliability is important in the EFI system. I have read and searched 351W EFI so much over the last month my newbie EFI brain is very "fuzzy". Below is what I have come up with as 351W "Options" and will appreciate input on which setup you think or know would work best. Thanks and I hope to see you on the trail or road. Z Bronco

Intakes Options:

1. Edelbrock 351W lower intake #3884 with and Edelbrock upper intake #3822 and possibly using the Edelbrock spacer #8727. Edelbrock 65mm Throttle body #3824 and 75mm MAF sensor with 19lb. injectors. Do I need to use the Edelbrock Throttle body or can I use '89-'93 mustang stuff? Do I need the Edelbrock EGR or can I eliminate it?

2. Ford 351W GT-40 lower intake with one of the several upper intakes that will fit and maybe a spacer. This is listed second because of the availability of finding the lower intake.

3. Holley Commander 950-22S Fuel injection system, motor has an Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake already. Is Holley coming out with an updated Commander 950 system?

4. Ford 5.8 truck lower intake, BCB's adapter, with a mustang upper intake.

5. Howell or any other EFI system that is tried and tested.

Fuel System Options:
I have NWMP dual tanks and want to keep both (I needed the 35 gallon capacity on my trip).

1. Replace rear tank with the BCB tank with the HP electric fuel pump in the tank. Use a LP electric pump to transfer fuel from Aux. tank to Main tank.

2. Keep existing main tank and use the LP Pump-Accumulator-HP Pump setup. Instead of using the 6 way selector valve, use the transfer from Aux. to Main setup.

Other Questions:
1. With the Ford/Edelbrock systems I plan on using the RJM Harness and eliminate the EGR. I already have a one wire 3G alternator installed.

2. My transmission is a C4 auto and maybe someday an auto overdrive might go in, so which computer should I get....the A9L or A9P?

3. Is 19lb. injectors better than 24lb. injectors better for the type of driving and wheeling I do? I am after low end torque which helps me "go slow" off road and tow the trailer.

Thanks again to those who read through this long thread.

 

[Bronco_69]

Intakes Options:

1. Edelbrock 351W lower intake #3884 with and Edelbrock upper intake #3822 and possibly using the Edelbrock spacer #8727. Edelbrock 65mm Throttle body #3824 and 75mm MAF sensor with 19lb. injectors. Do I need to use the Edelbrock Throttle body or can I use '89-'93 mustang stuff? Do I need the Edelbrock EGR or can I eliminate it?

2. Ford 351W GT-40 lower intake with one of the several upper intakes that will fit and maybe a spacer. This is listed second because of the availability of finding the lower intake.

I would go with #2 but #1 would work. use a ford throttle body and 65mm is perfect. NO spacer is needed and you may not have room for it. 19# injectors are fine and a OEM stock mass air meter will be perfect. I would run the egr for performace reasons. the only reason to delete is for looks.

Fuel System Options:
I have NWMP dual tanks and want to keep both (I needed the 35 gallon capacity on my trip).

1. Replace rear tank with the BCB tank with the HP electric fuel pump in the tank. Use a LP electric pump to transfer fuel from Aux. tank to Main tank.

2. Keep existing main tank and use the LP Pump-Accumulator-HP Pump setup. Instead of using the 6 way selector valve, use the transfer from Aux. to Main setup.

with a little work you should be able to put a efi pump in your current tank. get a replacement pump for a 5.0 mustang and it has a barb on the end for a hose. use a low pressure pump from the aux tank. i used OEM 1996 351 bronco fuel lines / filter / fuel rails on my set up. with a little bending it aorked great and i can get parts anywhere!!

Other Questions:
1. With the Ford/Edelbrock systems I plan on using the RJM Harness and eliminate the EGR. I already have a one wire 3G alternator installed.

2. My transmission is a C4 auto and maybe someday an auto overdrive might go in, so which computer should I get....the A9L or A9P?

it does not matter. the computer does not control the tranny. the A9P has a little more timming wich could cause some detenotation (sp) issues with high compression and 87 octane.

3. Is 19lb. injectors better than 24lb. injectors better for the type of driving and wheeling I do? I am after low end torque which helps me "go slow" off road and tow the trailer.

19# are fine. if you were up at 6000 rpm alot then you may have enough demand for some 24's but i doubt it. i run a 351w with gt40 heads, edelbrock intake, 5.0 cam, 75mm TB, roller rockers, etc and use 19# inctors. i also run the egr and oem mass air meter. it gives me a nice idle and great torque.

Thanks again to those who read through this long thread.

..................

 

[70EB]

Can't really say much more than Bronco_69 commented. 65mm throttle body is plenty. the larger ones tend to develop a whistle. MAF should be slightly larger than the TB (70mm is fine - I went aftermarket - came with the 24lb injectors that I got) Main concern is to ensure that the MAF matches the injector size (or get it tuned with a chip to work it out). debate over 19lb vs 24lb is best left up to what you want to do. 19lb, as stated is probably fine for you and are good to about 300hp +/-. Ford Lightnings had 19lbs. I went 24lbs since I found them cheap with the MAF and other parts.

Great source for used parts for the swap is www.corral.net Also a good source for tech questions.

I run the e2000 (1992 F150) fuel pump on the frame rail. No issue pulling fuel as of yet. if I was to do it differently in the beginning, I would have went with an in tank pump. I currently have a NWMP 23 gal tank. i think these are baffled better than the old stock tanks which is why it seems to be working well with my frame mounted pump. Big frame pump debate on Pirate4x4 has the Bosch 044 pump winning out but it is $$$$.

For your fuel rails, you may be able to find 351W rails that are wider than Mustang rails. if not, it is not hard to modify the Mustang rails for the additional width of the wider 351W intake. Just cut off the hard plastic/nylon lines between the rails and use EFI rated rubber hose with EFI rated hose clamps (there are differences in EFI hose/clamps than standard fuel hose, so get the correct stuff).

Below is a link to my 351W EFI swap thread. Feel free to ask any additional questions. it is not hat hard if I could do it. RJM harness is worth the money if you are a wiring/electrical idiot like I am. made it plug-n-play.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89700

Bill

 

[Broncobowsher]

Intake. How built is the engine? Bone stock, not a lot of flow, want EFI for drivability/cold starts, etc.? The BC works good as long as you are not trying to hot rod it. I think Jason stated it starts falling off around 4000 RPM. The GT40/lightening is what I like. Complete aftermarket EFi is also an option but hard to compare to the EEC-IV

Fuel system. If you have 2 good tanks I don't see any reason you need to change either of them. I like the accumulator to keep from starving the pump in those just right situations. to get them right in the tank (baffles and such) is often just a guessing game. I have seen the engineering that went into some OEM fuel systems and all the new ones are running an in tank accumulator. Something I have not seen anyone aftermarket do, they are still working with baffles and getting lucky most of the time.

Injectors. Stock 351 19's were stock and will do. Hot rod it a little and they are not enough. 24s are good

 

[SnwMnkys]

I went with 30 lbs injectors on my 351w, but I also have a bigger cam and port & polished World Products Windsor Sr. heads.

I ran the Injector sizing calculator at RC fuel injections web site and they suggested 27lbs for 350hp (my estimate) and to not exceed 80% duty cycle. Obviously I rounded up to 30s

 

[Z Bronco]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Have a great New Year!

 

[rjlougee]

Not sure if you remember me, but we talked a bit about this at the ECBR in Gore, VA in June.

My first choice for the intake would be the GT-40 upper/lower. The Edelbrock lower you listed would be good, but you can consider going with the better breathing 2946 upper manifold. If you don't plan any additional engine mods you can go either way, but if you do I'd go with the Victor.

I'd go with a 65mm TB and 70-75mm MAF, make isn't so important, although some of the older BBK TBs had an annoying whistle at part throttle.

Based off the bit of work you've done with the engine, I'd suggest going with 24# injectors. When checking HP to Injector recommendations, you have to make sure you're measuring apples/apples. Most of the online calculators are based off crankshaft HP measurements, so keep that in mind when trying to compare modern "at the wheels" HP numbers.

Personally, I'd recommend the Ford SEFI setup over the others you have listed. If you're up for some tuning there are a bunch of others available, research required.

A9x are pretty comparable, some do prefer one over the other, but with a C-4 it makes no difference.
HTH, Joe

 

[Z Bronco]

Joe,
I do remember you and very much enjoyed our talk in Gore, VA.. I learned a lot from that talk, plus also walked away with some great footage of your Bronco in the Rock Crawl competition, many thanks for responding. I am definitely leaning to the Ford SEFI setup for my EFI conversion, but I have had trouble finding an unmolested 351W GT-40 lower in my neck of the woods and that is why I brought up the possibility of using the Edelbrock lower. Since EFI is a new world for me I am a confused about the EDL #2946 upper manifold over the #3822. Isn't the Victor #2946 an upper RPM manifold (4000-7500 rpm) where the #3833 is lower (Idle-5500 rpm). Would the combination of the 3884 lower with the Victor upper be a great all around setup? This is one reason why as a EFI Newbie I posted this so I can learn what I don't know. There is a GT-40 lower intake a couple of hundred miles from me, but the heat riser hole has been drilled and tapped for a 1/2" ips plug according to the add. Would this intake be worth taking a look at? The price is $325.

Bill and Bronco69,
Also thanks for responding, every bit of info is helping clear my fuzzy brain. Everyone has been very helpful. Your EFI conversion looks great Bill.

Everyone's input helps as I am trying to get my EFI setup as close to right the first time.

 

[rjlougee]

I had called and talked to Edelbrock some time ago about their intakes and they recommended the Victor if the engine was making a certain HP number, I don't remember the exact number, but it's probably worth a call.

On the GT-40 lower, there isn't a heat riser hole, that should be the EGR gas passage. Since you don't plan to run the EGR it should work just fine for you. BTW, that's a pretty common mod done when the later ('98+) model Explorer intake is used on the GT-40 lower. The later Explorer intakes run the EGR externally into the 90* elbow between the TB and upper intake. I'd offer him $275 and see if he bites.
Joe

 

[Z Bronco]

Thanks, I will call the guy tomorrow and see what happens.
Warren

 

[Z Bronco]

Well, I am now pointed in a direction for EFI. I found and bought a 351W Gt-40 lower intake today. Thanks everyone for responding and your help. Now, to start collecting the other parts................

 

[Bronco_69]

great intake. you can either run a cobra, explorer, or gt40 upper on that lower.

 

[SnwMnkys]

Ive got a MAF calibrated for 24 lb injectors. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.