351W head work

[Lunar-tic]

Gentlemen, got some questions in reference to engine rebuilds and head work. I just got my hands on a "free" 351W out of a '79 P/U. It was a remanufactured motor with a reman tag dated '97 on it. It looks a little nasty and neglected (sat for a while without being run, maybe a year or two) but, the crank turned so I figured what the hell. Got it home and started tearing it apart and found all kinds of gunk and funk under the valve covers. So I popped the heads off and took them to a local machine shop. They are telling me if they grind the valves they will be out of tollerance and that I need new ones. They want to charge me $425 for this along with the standard head job work. Does that sound right? My dad thought it was high but, his calculations are based on 1980s figures. Any help here? Thanks.

Bill

 

[bmc69]

Did they say what specifically was wrong with the valves that they could not be refaced?

Second, a complete set of new valves does not cost anything close to $425..more like $250 at the very most and that would be for good quality aftermarket stainless valves.

 

[Lunar-tic]

The shop said that they were oversized valves and after grinding them they would be out of tollerance so it would be necessary to replace them instead. They want $425 for the parts and labor to install them as well as all the other stuff (cleaning, bead blasting, etc.) included in a head job.

 

[Bronco_69]

way to high. you can buy aftermarket heads for around that price. i have a set of 70 model heads fresh from the machine shop that i will sell you for $100 plush shipping if you cant find some local.

 

[bmc69]

The shop said that they were oversized valves and after grinding them they would be out of tollerance so it would be necessary to replace them instead. They want $425 for the parts and labor to install them as well as all the other stuff (cleaning, bead blasting, etc.) included in a head job.

The only thing that can be 'oversized' on valves (ignoring the issue of installing custom larger head diameter valves than the stock ones) is the stem diameter; you can purchase valves that have slightly larger stem diameter than the factory valves did to avoid guide rplacement in some instances. Either you are not interpreting them very well or something is fishy.

Valves that still meet guide clearance tolerance can usually be refaced (ground) without a problem unless they have really deep seat grooves in the face or have burnt areas..the latter never affecting more than a few valves that can be replaced individually in that case.

 

[Lunar-tic]

Yes bmc69, it is the stem diameter that is oversized. So 425 is way too high then?

 

[Lunar-tic]

I am dropping the block off with them for cleaning and pressure testing and I'll talk with the guy and get the scoop face to face. I'll post back what he tells me and you guys can tell me if he is blowing smoke. Thanks.

Bill

 

[bmc69]

Yes bmc69, it is the stem diameter that is oversized. So 425 is way too high then?

I think then what they might mean is that the stems are worn and you need all new valves with the oversized stem diameters. That would make sense anywya and is not atypical. What are they proposing to charge you for the 'rest' of the work in addition to the $425?

 

[Lunar-tic]

$425 total bmc69, that includes parts and labor. Thanks for clearing that up for me. This "free" motor is going to cost me a small fortune. I guess it will be cheaper than a crate motor though.

Bill

 

[bmc69]

$425 total bmc69, that includes parts and labor. Thanks for clearing that up for me. This "free" motor is going to cost me a small fortune. I guess it will be cheaper than a crate motor though.

Bill

ahhh..now it all fits together. $425 total cost out the door to recondition the pair including 16 new valves is fine..not bad at all.

 

[Bronco_69]

you could get a set of rebuilt gt40 heads for that price. i would not spend that kind of $$ on a stock set of heads. do a little research and you will see what i mean. you will gain power with the gt40 heads and be better off.

 

[broncnaz]

Lots of things could be done but really thats not a bad price. While some people can find rebuilt gt40 heads for that price you still have to find them. In some areas gt40 heads will cost you a little more.

On a side note are you sure that you have a 351W engine its very rare for a 79 pickup to have a 351W most pickups would have had the 351M

 

[Lunar-tic]

Yes, it was a remanufactured motor dropped into the old truck several years back. Prior to that the truck had a 302, which is what I thought I was getting until I did some research here. It reads 351 WCP 1 in the oil galley under the intake manifold. Thanks again for the help, the guy seems legit but you never really can tell, now I don't feel like I am getting screwed. I will pay to get these fixed rather than waste time looking for gt40s. I want to get through this engine/trans swap (I6 to V8) before the spring and since I am doing most of it, it's gonna take me all winter long.

 

[addicted]

^^^ Thats what I was thinking. You could get a 351W in vans but I dont remember any trucks coming with them. 351M or 400 in late 70s F150 4X4s and fullsize (78-79) Broncos. Even the 2wd F trucks in the late 70s were 302s I believe and 6 bangers.

 

[bmc69]

Yes, it was a remanufactured motor dropped into the old truck several years back. Prior to that the truck had a 302, which is what I thought I was getting until I did some research here. It reads 351 WCP 1 in the oil galley under the intake manifold. Thanks again for the help, the guy seems legit but you never really can tell, now I don't feel like I am getting screwed. I will pay to get these fixed rather than waste time looking for gt40s. I want to get through this engine/trans swap (I6 to V8) before the spring and since I am doing most of it, it's gonna take me all winter long.

yep..2wd (no 4wd though) trucks did have the 302 as an option and a 351w would obviously be the 'easy fit' larger engine to have replaced a 302.

Belive it or not..as someon who has ben an engine rebuilder for almost 30 years now, I've seen over 600 bucks sunk in the rebuild (stock..no mods) of just one 6-banger head....

 

[thunderbolt]

If valve stem clearance is the problem, the heads can easily be k-lined which presses in a bronze liner to the guide and is then re-honed to the right clearance. It's a very simple and inexpensive way to re-establish the right clearance for a competent machine shop. I would imagine if the valves need to be replaced, it's because the stems are gouged up or not straight enough or the margin of the head is to thin to run safely. You can get into a decent set of Ferrea or Rev valves for around $160-$180 or some stock replacement type valves for around $90 a set. So the rest of what he is charging you is in labor, assuming that he is re-using the springs, locks and retainers. In that price, you should see what all that includes for labor. A valve job, any blending of the valve job, surfacing if the decks aren't straight or if you want more compression, etc. Hope this helps.

 

[Lunar-tic]

All good input and I appreciate it. The heads are now the least of my problems. I took the block in to them this morning and learned that is has already been bored to .60 over and since there is some rust in the cylinders under the pistons (motor sat up in Florida for a while) it is essential a "core" block now. Any suggestions on where to go from here? Can I get a block from a manufacturer at a decent price? I am kind of leary of the "free" stuff now. Thanks again.

Bill

 

[broncnaz]

Well free is free at least you tried. Does your machine shop have and blocks? Otherwise I'd look for another cheap or free builder engine.

 

[thunderbolt]

I don't know what all you have available up there, but the local pull a part in charlotte sells complete engines for something like $180-200 dollars for a v-8. Plenty of windsors in early 90's pickups to be had and could be pretty complete

 

[av bronco]

351W is a thin wall motor, 060 is the max with sonic checking the cyl. walls- your best bet is get another block or shop around for a short block. there's some good deals on corral.net.