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351W Piston cc?

ryoungbronco

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How many cc's are the stock dish pistons on a 1979 351w? I've been searching everywhere to figure out what cc head I should get but have found nothing. My hope is to run 58cc AFR's but I'm not sure if the compression ration is going to be too high.
 

broncnaz

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Not sure about 79 I dont have much info for that year in 78 the comp ration was 8.3-1. but 1980 351W's had 8-1 compression they should have had the same heads as the 79 which are around 69 cc. Although I have also heard they were 64cc. Either way 58cc heads would bump your compression to about 9.3 if you had the 64cc heads and 10.3 if you had the 69cc heads. 10.3 is a little high but still streetable with aluminum heads as they can take 1-2 points more compression than iron heads and still run pump gas. Also some camshafts will bleed a little compression off as well you may want to look at some of the bigger RV type cams.
 
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ryoungbronco

ryoungbronco

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I thought the bigger the cc of a head the lower the compression. For instance, if the 58cc is 9.3 to 1 then a 64cc would be 8.8 to 1. Is the 58cc about 9.3 to 1 or 64cc?
 

sandguy356

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That is true, the bigger combustion chamber cc, the lower the compression ratio will be with the same piston. I'm thinking yours might be -22cc dish, unless they are a replacement flattop or something.
 

mcdobson

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You are correct, Mr. az stated it backwards. Neither Silvolite nor Sealed Power show the CC of the pistons.
 

bmc69

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How many cc's are the stock dish pistons on a 1979 351w? I've been searching everywhere to figure out what cc head I should get but have found nothing. My hope is to run 58cc AFR's but I'm not sure if the compression ration is going to be too high.

I have the '78 specs handy: 12.85cc piston dish and 67.5 cc head volume, yielding 8.7:1 compression ratio. Those are from the official NHRA engine blueprint guide for stock builds.
 
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ryoungbronco

ryoungbronco

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That is true, the bigger combustion chamber cc, the lower the compression ratio will be with the same piston. I'm thinking yours might be -22cc dish, unless they are a replacement flattop or something.

I thought -22cc as well but as bmc69 said there were some with -13's. I'm trying to figure my compression and what others have done.
 

cs_88

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I'm putting together a '77 351W and I've been wondering the same thing about my stock pistons. I've been thinking about cc'ing the dish myself just to see about what I've got. Haven't been able to find much info yet.
 

broncnaz

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I thought the bigger the cc of a head the lower the compression. For instance, if the 58cc is 9.3 to 1 then a 64cc would be 8.8 to 1. Is the 58cc about 9.3 to 1 or 64cc?

Correct but your going the other way from big to smaller. For the most part every 5 cc smaller the combustion chamber is you gain 1 point of compression. So a engine with 58cc heads and 9.3-1 compression would see compression drop to 8.3 with 64cc heads.
Only issue with Bmc69's specs are they are what is accepted for a race engine The NHRA does allow the blue printing of engine to basically get everyone on the same page all it means is you can run pistons with that dish and heads milled to thoose CC's. More than likely the stock factory engine came with bigger heads and deeper dishes.
 

broncnaz

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You are correct, Mr. az stated it backwards. Neither Silvolite nor Sealed Power show the CC of the pistons.

Its not backwards he's starting off with a compression ratio based upon big heads and is going smaller
 

mcdobson

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My apologies, I had to read your post over a few times to figure out what you were saying.
That if he started with 8 to 1 comp. with either 64 or 69 cc heads, the comp. ratio would increase more if he went from 69 to 58cc than from 64 to 58cc.
I'm with you now.
 
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ryoungbronco

ryoungbronco

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My apologies, I had to read your post over a few times to figure out what you were saying.
That if he started with 8 to 1 comp. with either 64 or 69 cc heads, the comp. ratio would increase more if he went from 69 to 58cc than from 64 to 58cc.
I'm with you now.

Sorry Broncnaz, it also took me a few times to read to follow what you were saying. Now I get where you are going.
The frustrating thing is that I have not found any clear answers on a 1979 compression ratio or what cc's the pistons and heads were. I've used the different compression calculators but with such misleading info it's been hard to get a definite answer on what cc I should look for with both piston and heads.
 

broncnaz

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I'm with you I havent found anything for 79's but since 78 and 80 engine specs are fairly close I would think that 79 is one or the other. Some one may have to tear down a engine to see what CC the dish is and what CC the heads are to be certain.
But still you can get away with higher compression when running aluminum heads If you really dont want to run compression that high then consider a different brand of head that has the chamber size that your comfortable with.
 

bmc69

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I wish I could help ya more ..for some reason I do not have the '79 blueprint specs in my handy shop reference and the web site where they were always available on line is gone. :(

The NHRA engine spec listings have always been considered the ultimate source of truth on engine configs (and they include casting nos for intakes and heads nd even the carburetor numbers), in no small part because those rules are used to referee any/all claims in the stocker racing classes.

Edit: Ah ha!..found where its been re-hosted. '79 is exact same specs as '78...BTW, the spec piston-to-deck clearance is .0145"..a number you also need in your CR calcs. By way of comparison, 302s were zero-decked in that year.
 

broncnaz

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The NHRA engine spec listings have always been considered the ultimate source of truth on engine configs (and they include casting nos for intakes and heads nd even the carburetor numbers), in no small part because those rules are used to referee any/all claims in the stocker racing classes.
QUOTE]

Yes but there specs are still what the biggest or smallest tolerance is allowed. Doesnt mean thats what a factory engine is. If your a racer and they allow 67 cc chambers and your engines has 69cc chambers you mill them to get down to there limit just as if they say you can have a .030 overbore you also do a .030 over bore so you have the biggest bore allowed. The so called factory specs were just what Ford reported as normal range ie 67-70 cc heads. NHRA just set it to the lowest or biggest specs depending on the item. Plus they required certain casting numbers for that particular year to be legal.
I wouldnt say the NHRA spec's are wrong but they are setup so you can optomize your engine to there rules.
 

bmc69

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The NHRA engine spec listings have always been considered the ultimate source of truth on engine configs (and they include casting nos for intakes and heads nd even the carburetor numbers), in no small part because those rules are used to referee any/all claims in the stocker racing classes.
QUOTE]

Yes but there specs are still what the biggest or smallest tolerance is allowed. Doesnt mean thats what a factory engine is. If your a racer and they allow 67 cc chambers and your engines has 69cc chambers you mill them to get down to there limit just as if they say you can have a .030 overbore you also do a .030 over bore so you have the biggest bore allowed. The so called factory specs were just what Ford reported as normal range ie 67-70 cc heads. NHRA just set it to the lowest or biggest specs depending on the item. Plus they required certain casting numbers for that particular year to be legal.
I wouldnt say the NHRA spec's are wrong but they are setup so you can optomize your engine to there rules.

They are called the 'blueprint specs' specifically because the numbers are the 'dead on perfect' Ford design numbers. Of course variation is allowed and certainly does occur in normal production..but those blueprint numbers are what each component's untoleranced datum values happen to be.

That is also why you see decimals in the NHRA numbers..because they are the theoretical design numbers, not averages or the range of actual numbers taken from production parts. However, normal production statistics with a Gaussian distribution* says that inspecting/measuring a large sample of actual production items will yield, when the measurements are averaged, the blueprint design value in each case.;)

* however, many components are toleranced with differnt values on the plus and miunu side of the 'perfect' design datum..and those tend toward a Rayleigh distribution, so the average value for all components will not equal the blueprint value..it will be skewed toward the larger of the two tolerance limits.
 
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