76 bronco DESTROYING starter solenoids!!! HELP!

[Sourjack89]

I have a 76 Bronco 302 Automatic...I have gone through FOUR startener solenoids in a weekend. It was running fine then all of a sudden this! It will start fine a few times. Then the key will turn to crank position and nothing will happen. Then I will get it to start but the starter will continue spinning, effectively killing the solenoid. I have no clue what went wrong. Please HELP!

 

[oldiron]

Are you talking about the fender mounted solenoid?

 

[Slowleak]

Maybe a bad ignition switch?

 

[Steve83]

No, the starter running doesn't kill the solenoid (or relay).

Are you talking about a solenoid (which is part of the starter) or a relay (which is on the fender near the battery)? Where are you getting these parts? What brand & PN are you buying? Have you looked inside any of the "dead" ones? What happened to cause you to replace it the first time, and what happened to the truck just before that?

 

[American180]

Sounds like a bad ignition switch. When it sticks, try pulling the ignition starter wire off of the solenoid and see if it stops? If it does then the switch is probably continuing to supply power to the solenoid. When it doesn't start, try a test light between the starter wire and ground to see if your getting power from the switch.

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey Sourjack, sorry you're having such troubles.
But as we've found out here over the years, even though four in a row might be a record, the instances of failed new starter relays is reaching epic levels!
So don't rule out the fact that it might not be you or your Bronco that's causing the trouble just yet. It still might be of course, but it might just be the crap parts we get these days.

Yes, as they said it could be the ignition switch. It could be the wiring. It could be a couple of things even. The neutral safety switch on the transmission can keep it from starting. A bad or loose wire in that circuit can keep it from starting.
A starter running on can be the ignition switch or the relay.
Do what was suggested and if it runs on again, pull the Red w/blue "S" wire on the relay to see if it stops.

And the others have already asked this question, but when you get the chance take a peek at your starter and let us know if it's a standard old model or an upgraded modern PMGR style.
The difference is the old ones (would have come stock on an EB like yours) would be just the cylindrical motor, with the relay on the fender. The newer style has an actual solenoid piggybacked on to it and is overall quite a bit smaller in size than the older ones.
Letting us know that might give us a different direction to hunt for your gremlin.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[hucklburry rev2]

I'd suspect bad new solenoids, and probably call a Ford dealer and see if you can get an OEM one, I've had 2 bad in a row, 4 would be the most I've heard

 

[bronconut73]

Got a bad one from AutoZone last year and it was their HD model. In a pinch i put an old (real old) one on there that has been sitting on my shelf forever. I must have known it was good to put it up there I thought...
Well it was. Still there doing fine a year later. Hell it "might" be the stock one off my eb or my Dad's '76 F-150.

But Donk is right .....new electrical parts suck.
Ultimately all of these big corporations layed off their QC personnel during the recession and just never re-incorporated the process back in to their systems properly.
QC/QA saves money and saves lives.

 

[bmc69]

I've gotten to the point where I'll only use NOS Standard Ignition solenoids (and most all other electric items too for that matter). The stuff you get at the local parts stores is junk.

I made a similar mistake buying a cheap knockoff set of solenoids for a Warn winch. Hit the power and it won't shut off.

 

[Sourjack89]

I finally got it working with another new solenoid from a different store and brand altogether...new ignition switch, new wires for the battery, starter etc and double grounded it!!! I wasn’t willing to leave any rocks unturned! But I would bet you anything I had an unlucky dose of BAD solenoids...unreal!

 

[DirtDonk]

You're our new test-bed hero! Four bad ones in a row. Epic crapola!

This is actually why for several years here we've often recommended "new" starter relays be sourced at the junkyards instead of at the auto parts stores. You can find that recommendation in hundreds of threads here.
If you can find even an ancient original one for a few bucks and your time to pull it, you're ahead of the game.

We've been wondering about the price points on these things. Most of us are more than willing to avoid the $60-$80 buck ones in favor of the $15-$25 buck ones. And even after many failures it was hard to get someone to commit to going with big bucks. With the warranties and all, most will just get new ones for free. But the hassle factor is starting to take it's toll even on the most frugal of us.
I just bought a Volvo-Penta branded, made in the USA, marine rated starter relay from my local supplier Volpar (independent Volvo service center) and paid $60 bucks for their last one.
They're looking for more, but I finally put my money where my mouth was.

Good luck with number-5!;D

Paul

 

[clarrance]

The solenoids today are total crap. I've resorted to buying continuous duty relays made for a fork truck.

 

[Steve83]

This is still ~$27:


(phone app link)

Often cheaper on eBay.

 

[Past_Miner]

Just did this two times in a row on my son's '77. The original was sticky and it sometimes wouldn't start. The brand new relays both failed between the S and I posts within a day of install. It would start fine but you couldn't get it to turn off! Still running on the original with intermittent start while we wait for this Motorcraft one from Ebay for $27.58. At least it claims to be made in the USA.

 

[DirtDonk]

That's good to know. My most recent Motorcraft purchase (from NOS in San Jose) was made in China.
The guy was actually pretty proud of the fact that they were still made in the USA so I did not even look at the box until I got home. I'm usually a little more cynical that that, but in this case forgot to do my due diligence.

Let us know how it works when you get it home.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Steve83]

Still running on the original with intermittent start while we wait for this Motorcraft one from Ebay for $27.58. At least it claims to be made in the USA.

When you get a good replacement, open the old one & see what the guts look like.


(phone app link)

And take a close look at the MC. Mine in the previous photo is Hecho en Mexico, but the nuts are Taiwanese.

 

[ntsqd]

The Ford starter solenoids are used on a lot of farm equipment. Grand-dad & I used to 'rebuild' them. Drill out the rivets, clean the disc, & gently file smooth the stationary contact's surfaces. If it was real bad we'd flip the disc and/or flip the stationary contacts. Put it back together with, I *think*, four 8-32's (may have been 10-32's) and stake the nuts so they can't back off.

 

[DirtDonk]

I love that solution! Anything done on a farm or ranch that works is usually a great thing to learn.
Did you two ever replace the wire strand between the main contact and the "I" post?
On the relays I've taken apart, that thing was just hair-thin and would have been hard to work with. But I sure would like to have seen at least a larger diameter strand to handle what you throw at it.

Unless there is some reason for it to be so thin (such as being a sacrificial component), things that tiny on an automobile application always make me cringe.

Paul

 

[blubuckaroo]

I quit using the standard part store solenoids long ago, even though they would probably handle the amperage of my new mini starter.
I use an Onan 307-1617 solenoid. It's identical to the Ford part but it's more reliable than the junk in the part stores.
I figure if it's reliable enough for a hospital emergency generator, then it's good enough for my car.
http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/onan-3071617-starter-solenoid-p-459.html

 

[ntsqd]

Been a long time since I had one open. I recall the tiny wire, but no details about needing to replace it. No doubt granddad had some armature wire that we used to replace any that needed replacing. His side job was doing Starter/Generator/Alternator repair for a big construction company (big as in built part of the current "Grapevine" on I-5).

BTW, some brands of solenoids have asymmetrical stationary contacts, can't flip those.

My go-to never, ever have a problem with it ever again contactor would be something like this: http://www.gigavac.com/sites/default/files/catalog/spec_sheet/mx52.pdf but then again for me that's easy to get.