9 inch axle bearing issue. Need some help

[JSmall]

Looking for some advice. The bearing is seated in the housing end and I still have this gap. What could be causing this and how do I go about fixing it?

Full width 9"
35 spline Yukon shafts
Set20 bearings
Yukon bearing retainers
Drum backing plate cut for spacer

I know the shaft isn't bottoming out on the ARB cross pin. I also know the bearing race is seated all the way into the housing. Is it possible that I have the wrong bearing retainers? Is it okay to suck everything down and not worry about the gap?

 

[JSmall]

Race fully seated

 

[DirtDonk]

Not really "OK" but it is what most do in this situation. I would not though, if you have any other options.

It does look from here like you have the thicker gasket between the retainer and tube end, but how does the new retainer fit over the bearing? There have been some mis-sized retainers that do not work as well with the Set-20's as they are supposed to.

Can you take a shot of the side view showing the retainer and outer bearing?

Thanks

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and I might be off base here... But that race really does not look fully seated to me.
You're right there though, so should have a better view than me. But it looks like it's still a tiny bit proud of the housing (maybe that's how it's supposed to seat?) and it looks like there is still a gap inside.

I'm guessing you heard and felt it bottom out, because that's a pretty distinct sound/feel when it happens.

Paul

 

[JSmall]

The race "felt" like it was fully seated. Here are a few pictures of the seal and retainer.

 

[JSmall]

I don't see any issues with the bearing surface

 

[BanditBronco]

Some axle manufacturers use a double retainer to take up the extra space. Its more like a spacer that slides over the entire bearing seal instead of up against it. I can't post a picture but the strange 9 inch axles we use at work have this set up. Here is a link to a how to that you can kinda see the spacer in one of the pictures https://localmotors.com/rileyklingaman/rear-axle-assembly-with-baer-brakes/ the link will probably take you to step 1 the picture you want is on step 8. My currie housing had the same issue, I just cut a spacer on the water jet to take up the space. Send me your email Jsmall and I can send you some pics tomorrow while I am at work.

 

[DirtDonk]

I agree. It looks seated from this angle.
And the retainer appears to be the correct size.
Do you still have the original style retainers by any chance? I don't remember ever seeing a reproduction of the stock style for late model full-size trucks, but they fit in such a way as to compress the seal and bearing, but seated on the face much sooner, so as not to put too much preload on the bearings.

I know many who just tighten it down, even to the point of seriously deforming the aftermarket retainers, but that just never seemed right to me. And from what I remember reading in the Timken Set-20 instruction sheets, there is actually supposed to be some freeplay, and not actually preload, on the bearings.
Kind'a hard not to preload something that you're torquing down to the point of distortion!

I know that our disc brake kits with the Set-20 axles also include spacer rings, but I believe this is to sit inside the larger bore of the caliper bracket and provide some preload (we actually call it a preload ring). Rather than it being some sort of spacer to take up the gap you have there.

You say the axle is not bottomed out, so it sounds like you've tested that theory. Because the gap is about what I've seen others experience, I'd say you're probably correctly set. We just need to figure out somewhere to get a spacer to tidy up that gap though.

Sure wish we had a "Ford 9" Set-20 Guru" in our midst. All previous calls for one came up empty.
Do you have access to a full-size Ford shop manual by any chance? Might be a detail in there that we're not seeing elsewhere.

And what about those original retainers (non-EB)? Any laying around?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Well there ya go! Thanks for chiming in Bandit.
Haven't checked out your link yet, but will as soon as I'm through perusing the shop manuals that I think I have around here somewhere.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, that's the guy. So someone is making something to fill that gap. The question now is who? I didn't go into their parts list because it asked me to sign up. Not interested in going that far just yet.

Paul

 

[JSmall]

Some axle manufacturers use a double retainer to take up the extra space. Its more like a spacer that slides over the entire bearing seal instead of up against it. I can't post a picture but the strange 9 inch axles we use at work have this set up. Here is a link to a how to that you can kinda see the spacer in one of the pictures https://localmotors.com/rileyklingaman/rear-axle-assembly-with-baer-brakes/ the link will probably take you to step 1 the picture you want is on step 8. My currie housing had the same issue, I just cut a spacer on the water jet to take up the space. Send me your email Jsmall and I can send you some pics tomorrow while I am at work.

That makes sense. I would appreciate any pics you have. Thanks!

jaromysmallwood@msn.com

 

[JSmall]

I agree. It looks seated from this angle.
And the retainer appears to be the correct size.
Do you still have the original style retainers by any chance? I don't remember ever seeing a reproduction of the stock style for late model full-size trucks, but they fit in such a way as to compress the seal and bearing, but seated on the face much sooner, so as not to put too much preload on the bearings.

I know many who just tighten it down, even to the point of seriously deforming the aftermarket retainers, but that just never seemed right to me. And from what I remember reading in the Timken Set-20 instruction sheets, there is actually supposed to be some freeplay, and not actually preload, on the bearings.
Kind'a hard not to preload something that you're torquing down to the point of distortion!

I know that our disc brake kits with the Set-20 axles also include spacer rings, but I believe this is to sit inside the larger bore of the caliper bracket and provide some preload (we actually call it a preload ring). Rather than it being some sort of spacer to take up the gap you have there.

You say the axle is not bottomed out, so it sounds like you've tested that theory. Because the gap is about what I've seen others experience, I'd say you're probably correctly set. We just need to figure out somewhere to get a spacer to tidy up that gap though.

Sure wish we had a "Ford 9" Set-20 Guru" in our midst. All previous calls for one came up empty.
Do you have access to a full-size Ford shop manual by any chance? Might be a detail in there that we're not seeing elsewhere.

And what about those original retainers (non-EB)? Any laying around?

Paul

As always, thanks for the detailed response. I still have my stock retainers and they have a dish to them if that makes sense. To use them, I would need to remove the new bearings and I don't really want to do that.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, totally agree! A pain to both time and money.
Got a pic of the old ones so we can use them for reference though? A thickness measurement too, in case that's different?

I remember the first one I saw looked like more than double the thickness of a standard big-bearing retainer. But never measured.

Thanks

Paul

 

[JSmall]

Yeah, totally agree! A pain to both time and money.
Got a pic of the old ones so we can use them for reference though? A thickness measurement too, in case that's different?

I remember the first one I saw looked like more than double the thickness of a standard big-bearing retainer. But never measured.

Thanks

Paul

Stock retainer. You can see it has a dish that the seal would sit in. The Yukon ones are flat.

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks. Doesn't look as thick as I remember, but the dome/dish is pretty deep and explains the odd fit of a standard flat plate.

At least in the case of your gap, it sure looks like a second retainer, sized to simply surround the bearing (same thickness, but larger bore) would fill the gap nicely and get rid of a lot of problems.

I wonder if they make such a thing. Gonna have to look at some of the offerings to see if it's out there.
Should be easy enough to get though, if that's all that's needed.

In the meantime, what about a couple of plates cut out of 3/16" or 1/4" plate and drilled with two holes each to fit in there?
Just how big is that gap anyway?

Paul

 

[SHX669]

Keep us informed Jeromy - hopefully an easy fix.
SHX

 

[duffymahoney]

All the cool kids are narrowing now

 

[JSmall]

Keep us informed Jeromy - hopefully an easy fix.
SHX

Will do Stan. At least one guy on FB is saying the gap is normal and that I just need to suck the retainer down. That allows the seal do bulge which helps it seal on the housing. I don't know

 

[JSmall]

All the cool kids are narrowing now

;D;D;D;D I will be cool again

 

[Apogee]

Will do Stan. At least one guy on FB is saying the gap is normal and that I just need to suck the retainer down. That allows the seal do bulge which helps it seal on the housing. I don't know

The seal requires about .045" of crush give or take, so you do need to suck it down in order for it to seal properly. The "skirt" of the seal around the bearing bulges out into the wall of the bearing counterbore to make a seal...without the crush, no bulge and no seal, hence all of the complaints of leaky SET20 bearings. If you look inside the seal prior to installation, you'll see rubber ridges that are about .06" tall that compress against the inner bearing race.

If your housing ends are exceptionally worn, damaged, scarred, etc, then it may never seal without some RTV or other measures.

I tend to run thicker retainer plates with SET20 bearings for less distortion, as even the stamped OE plates tend to wrap around the bearing/seal upon tightening. As for the gap, the assumption is that you have a ~10 gauge (.134") drum brake backing plate and gasket (~.020" FelPro #55036) between the retainer and housing end.

Tobin