Aaarrrr...3 hours to grind and adjust a new clutch equalizer bar...AND THEN :l

[DirtDonk]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz x2

PaulB

 

[Kurt]

I don't think anyone here wanted to bash the vendor. I think people wanted to know who it was so they could make a decision to either buy from them and go through the fab work to make it fit correctly or look for another vendor/supplier where the install would be easier.

If I'm a vendor selling products that are not fitting correctly I want to know. If I don't hear about it and customers are told to be "humble" and I think everything is fine and dandy when in reality it is not then shame one you. If I know my product does not fit properly as advertised and I do nothing about it then shame on me. At the minimum, the vendor should be aware of the situation.

My sentiments exactly.............. Not bashing, but remedying the problem.

Paul........... That is an example of what great customer service is.

 

[Slim]

Haven't been on CB long enough to realize Dirt' was associated with WH. Paul, your responses show everybody that you and WH are definitely stand up people. Looking forward to getting my first EB to pass business your way. Or, do you sell anything for First Gen Blazers? ;D. I know you don't But it would be nice.

 

[taipeichris]

Paul,
Sorry I didn't post these photos sooner. I just marked them with red arrows to mark where I grinded or where there were clearance problems. I still need to do more bending on the lower flat bar to clear the return spring.
Chris
PS In the last photo I'm using an Auto Zone clutch adjusting rod, my old one didn't have enough tread to get it to fit.

 

[DirtDonk]

Haven't been on CB long enough to realize Dirt' was associated with WH. Paul, your responses show everybody that you and WH are definitely stand up people. Looking forward to getting my first EB to pass business your way. Or, do you sell anything for First Gen Blazers? ;D. I know you don't But it would be nice.

Hey Slim, thanks. Hmmm, an old K5 eh? Well, Tuffy consoles (even though the stock ones were pretty cool) for security, Painless or Centech wiring harnesses, Corbeau seats, shocks, custom springs, we could put a Ford alternator on that beast(!), RCV axles, Winters auto tranny shifter, a Gear Banger maybe (you could be a guinea pig!) if you have a manual, something from Advance Adapters, polyurethane bushings, a "roll-yer-own" hood shock kit, headlight upgrades (unless yours is a 4-eyes model?), and probably a few other things I can think of!
I think if there were another vehicle that a lot of Bronco owners here would have liked to have, it'd be a first or second gen K5. Cool truck!

Anyway, just kidding on some of the stuff. I know you have plenty of sources for good Blazer parts, but if you ever need something that nobody else is able or willing to get for you, definitely ask away. We can at least try. Might find out that it's something our vendors have.

Anyway, thanks again. Good to see you here.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks for the pics Chris. That should help a bunch. I might ask for some more, since I'd like to see the alignment of the bracket with your clutch fork, but this is pretty telling. As I mentioned in our last e-mails, I certainly see some variances from what I have on the shelf and what you have there in the pics.

Since I just got them yesterday, and was out today on airport runs and family matters, there might be yet another weekend delay in the middle here.
However, I did pass this info and the pics on to Jim last night, so he may have had some time to do some research (hah! on a holiday Friday? Not!).
Don't know if he's had time to actually view them yet or not, but we'll have something to say about it as soon as possible.

Thanks for hanging in there.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and I should mention too Chris, that the older equalizer/Z-bar in your pic doesn't look anything like the "stock" stuff I'm used to seeing. Perhaps another one of those "early '66" issues, but not sure if that's a contributing factor or not, since the engine and all the important parts should still be in the same place as later trucks.

And just to make sure, is that your original frame bracket, that you used with our equalizer bar and bushings? What about the engine side bracket? Original, or did you buy both brackets too?
I don't have your order in front of me, so I wanted to make sure which parts were used.

Thanks

Paul

 

[taipeichris]

Hi Paul,
Thanks for responding over the weekend. Those are my original brackets. I purchased the equalizer bar, fork boot, bushing kit, and a new clutch adjustment rod. I don't think I have a photo of the engine bracket but I'll take one over the weekend. As far as alignment goes between the equalizer lower bar and the fork, it's been bent/massaged it to conform. From the frame to block, it's been adjusted straight too. As to the clutch adjusting rod, I'm fabing a new one with my old threaded tip. Effort, I don't normally mind but this one is going into the record books. OH and please remind me to change my dana 44 pinion seal too.
Have a great Saturday.
Chris

 

[DirtDonk]

Ok Chris, finally back from the "Test Lab" (as we fondly refer to the grease-pit in the back). And after putting the tech team (mostly Jim) on this case we have determined yours to be another case of what we've come to know as "66-itis". ;D
Just like you and I were discussing originally.

This is going to be another long one, so go grab a drink and some popcorn and read away. Anyone feel free to make comments and corrections as they see fit please.
Some is going to be questions for you, some is going to be suggestions by me (us) and some is just going to be my usual long-windedness.

I'll include a pic below too, of an original (later-model EB) set, alongside our current production pieces. You can see we patterned ours pretty much along the same lines, but when you compare them to yours, we can see the obvious differences.

Didn't take Ford too long to decide to beef up both the frame side, and especially the engine side, of the equalizer bar's ends. You can see how the original was simply a bar welded to the tube and would have cracked after enough time, or under enough stress. The newer design incorporates the end bar completely surrounding the tube, with a full-circumference weld.
By the way, did your first one break or something? I don't think we ever discussed what the original problem was that caused you to need a replacement?

That beefier design though, was one of the main issues you had unfortunately. Your early frame bracket, though the same basic shape as the later models, does not have the relief hole cut into it to clear the larger end flange. You can clearly see it in our bracket, vs the one in your pics.
That was evidently most of your grinding woes I take it?
The good news is that I doubt you really weakened it at all, as it's still got full attachment. Just lost some excess metal is all.
The bad news is that it took a lot of effort on your part to grind it!

Now to the bending. Looks like you have headers?
Unfortunately, that might have been a big part of your need to bend the side bars. It's a very common issue with Broncos. One that I didn't even think to ask you when you originally said it didn't work.
With any Bronco clutch mechanism, some headers fit pretty well, some don't at all.
Hope those aren't our headers! Are they, by any chance? Can't tell from the pics. They almost look like manifolds, except for the triangle flange joint.

It looks like you could still get away with the down-bracket over slightly though. Maybe I can't see something in the pic, but it looks like you have some room to maneuver still. Maybe enough to un-bind the spring a little bit?

Anyway, sorry you've had to go through all this. Looks like you would have had to no matter what though. How did your original stuff fit? Now that you've had a chance to study things a bit, can you tell if it was bent from stock?
The way it looks, you might be able to mess with it all some more to get things to play nice together.


But wait! There's more!

Maybe you can change the clutch pedal rod's length a bit to get the base setting so that the bar is farther away from the header. That might help to put the spring at a more natural angle, get your brackets away from the header, and give you a better starting point to bend-and-tweak things back into shape.
You do know there is an eccentric rubber bumper up under the clutch pedal? When you turn the nut/bolt, it adjusts the height of the clutch pedal up or down to better match the height of the brake pedal and is the first step in any adjustment. Try messing with that and see what help it gives.
If that's not enough to put the equalizer at a good level though, you might have to make (or buy) an adjustable pedal rod to fine-tune things.

Then, when that's all set and the outside arm is clearing the frame, maybe the inside arm will be clearing the header. Then you can make final adjustments to the length of your (new) clutch fork actuating rod without it being at such an angle.

As a final step, if the spring is still interfering, maybe drill a couple of judiciously placed holes in both the clutch fork and the engine tower to re-align the spring to a more linkage-friendly location?
Even stock, the return spring is close to hitting something. So close in fact that if you put it on flipped, it will hit the mechanism. It'll only go on one way even stock. Ford used several different sizes over the years and this might have been the reason.

I couldn't see the angle of your clutch rod as it exits the floor and lines up with your equalizer's frame end. Is it relatively vertical? Or is it kacked off at an angle? Reason I ask is that I think I remember you saying you had to tweak the frame side arm too. Is that correct?
If the rod is at a funny angle as it exits the floor, check that out and find out what's changed from stock.

For reference, later models had a clutch rod where the ends were bent at 90° angles, but angled opposite of each other so it would line up properly with the equalizer bar's arm.
Some other vehicles had theirs on the same side, so if someone has swapped yours out, it could be offset the wrong way. Worth looking at anyway.

Do you have a body lift? Doesn't look like it, but I had to ask. Body lifts, and just aging old original body cushions can change the pedal-to-equalizer relationship by a bit. Maybe some compensating length changes can help you fit everything into that small space? Also worth looking into anytime you're having clutch linkage issues.

Does your pedal rod exit the pedal bracket on it's inside (passenger side) edge and go out through the floor? Then does it enter the frame arm of the equalizer from the outside (driver's side) facing inward? In other words, the rod comes down on the outside of the bracket?
That's how the later model ones are fitted. Your '66 could be different, but I'd think this aspect would likely be the same through all the years. If not though, that might be one reason your arm would not have lined up and you had to bend it.

Sorry for all the talk, but I wanted to make sure you were starting from the same point so you weren't fighting perhaps an existing issue. And to make sure we're all reading the same page.
Maybe your '66 is different in other ways too. Anyone reading this have a '66 or '67 they'd care to share pictures of with us? Be interesting to see.


From Jim:

"Needless to say, we will be adding a set of instructions to the part, along with some additional tech info on the web page, for owners of the early models, to detail making a relief hole in the stock frame bracket (if necessary) to clear the rotating assembly. Or even to suggest purchasing our matching part when modifying the existing one is not preferred or the original bracket does not exist.

Until we know exactly when Ford made the running change to the linkage, we might call it a 66-68 thing. Rather than just limiting any special notes to '66 only.

Bending the stock or the aftermarket EQ brackets is just part of making clearance around the aftermarket headers.
As for the spring, there are different styles of clutch return springs. Some have more, some have fewer coils, so some may fit better than others."


Bottom line is that we still want to help if we can, but anything we can replace your existing stuff with is going to be the same thing you have now and is going to have the same fitment issues.
You've already ground the clearance into the bar ends, so don't need a frame bracket with a relief cut into it.
The equalizer bars themselves are going to have the same angles yours had originally, so you'd just have to re-bend it all over again.
We do have an uber-bitchin' adjustable clutch rod, but unless everything else fits properly, I don't think that would really be a cure-all at this point.

So we're kind of stuck Chris. Although I hate to say it that way! ;D
If you decide you would still like to start fresh again with any of this, I will make you a great deal on some replacements, but I'm thinking that you're better off just working with what you have already modified and seeing what you can do to fine-tune the fit.
Maybe start with what I said about adjusting the up-stream stuff (pedal and such) first, to see if that gives you any better angles to work with.
Then we can work from there.

Not what you wanted to hear, I know. Hopefully some of it can help though.
Let me know what you'd like to do.
Other than using the shop DeLorean to go back and start over of course!

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and change your Dana 44 pinion seal soon too.

Paul

 

[taipeichris]

Dear Paul, Jim, and Wild Horses Staff.

I want to thank each and every one of you very much for your effort in researching my clutch linkage issue. My 66 was a special order Bronco, I think it was a pre-sport package, even Ford didn’t believe I had a 66 with a stock “289 N” in my vin number so I’m not surprised my original clutch linkage was different from other Broncos. I replaced my clutch equalizer bar to prevent problems on the road somewhere one day, after all I did just install a new clutch.

Starting from the pedal down.

1. My clutch and brake pedals are equal height from the floor, I adjusted the rubber stop years ago.

2. I made my own adjustable clutch pedal to equalizer bar rod to match the stock length one when I purchased my Bronco. The stock one was shot to heck.

3. When I did my NV3550 conversion I added a 1inch WH body lift, at that time I lengthened the clutch pedal to equalizer bar rod.

4. My original clutch equalizer was just below the top of the frame rail on the outside of the frame rail where the pedal rod drops out of the floor, I did readjust my pedal rod a lot to fit.

5. On my original equalizer bar, the arm that connects to the clutch adjusting rod was further over towards the motor than the new one.

6. My return spring and clutch adjusting rod were parallel with my original parts.

7. I had zero clearance issues with my stock exhaust manifolds.

8. I am currently running the B.C. Broncos shorty headers, they fit very well and have zero clearance issues with the clutch linkage, love’m, they leave a lot of extra clearance space down there.

9. Since the last time we spoke I did bend the down arm connecting the clutch adjusting rod to the fork over a lot more and no longer have clearance issues with the return spring, it was not at all an easy bend.

10. My original clutch adjusting rod couldn’t be used with the WH equalizer bar, even adjusted in all the way it just didn’t fit. So I found a generic “Ford” one at Auto Zone. I don’t like it since the point/cap isn’t threaded so it could hypothetically fall off if clutch failure occurs one day and then I’d to find it versus my original one which was threaded and would stay in place. For now I added a small piece of electrical tape just incase.

11. I’ve been driving with my new clutch for several hundred miles since this was a problem and everything seems to be happy for now.

12. An instruction sheet would be an excellent idea to include on your website. I’m rather handy with my collection of tools, a big vice, and with making things work well but I’m sure some new owners of Broncos might find themselves on the wrong side of a learning curve here.

13. In retrospect, a relief hole in my frame bracket would have kept me from grinding my shinny new WH equalizer bar.

Once again, if I knew then what I know now, well . . . I’d still buy my Bronco.

Chris

PS Keep your eyes open for another tech write up coming soon...

 

[DirtDonk]

Well heck and darn Chris. I was hoping that some of what I said might be categorized as brilliant insight. But it looks like you've had it all covered from the get-go.
I was afraid of that.

So this linkage that you just replaced was already something that you made to replace the original one that broke? Good for you on that. Is yours an exact duplicate, or did you make any mods to make it better?
You had the headers with the original linkage and they didn't interfere? Interesting again.

Glad you've been able to take some more time to deal with the last few details. I know the spring interference was bothering you greatly (as it should) so it's good to know it's fixed.
Hanging over the edge of the frame was where mine and the others fit up too. So that's an oddball if the new one did not. Slight diff in brackets maybe? Different arm?

Even though you've been "playing" with it, see if you can take a shot straight down on to the equalizer bar so I can see where you've had to massage it to make it fit.
At least, do it if you can stand to look at it one more time for a ween or so!

Give me a buzz on Monday if you get the chance too. I wouldn't mind re-hashing a few things with you still.

Thanks for the detailed response too. Clears the rest up I think.
In fact, if I'd known all that stuff (or remembered it from previous threads) I could have kept my fingers quiet about most of what I was going on about!
Oh well, I like talking Bronco anyway.

Talk to you soon.

Paul

 

[taipeichris]

The only linkage that I fabricated on my own is the rod that connects the pedal to the equalizer bar arm. Got to sleep, will post photos...zzz...zzz..