Alignment shops

[Cortez]

Alright EB fam…I’m scheduled for a front end alignment Friday, and planned on taking the specs posted in the tech bulletins on classicbroncos.com. But - what should I expect to encounter…will a modern shop know about the camber shims on the old hubs, do they know how to pull the old hubs…and/or did you have to search the local shops for an old codger who knows his way around the Bronco?

 

[DirtDonk]

Mostly the latter. But every now and then, a young tech has read up, or learned from an old guy before they retired, and knows what to do.
You just have to get lucky. "Well, do you feel lucky? Punk!" haha!

I can tell you one thing though. A standard alignment price will go right out the window if they need to install shims in any part. Spindle, OR ball-joint eccentrics. A spindle job, which includes re-packing wheel bearings and maybe even renewing the brakes if you have not done so already, turns a $49 alignment "check" into a $750 front end refresh.
So keep that in mind.

Usually we here recommend having it checked at the alignment shop, and letting them adjust the toe-in setting. But that's about it. The rest you do yourself.
If the ball-joint sleeves are not new, then they are not coming out without some persuasion. If the tie-rod is not newer, the adjusting sleeve is not going to give up without a fight either.
So if you have not already, clean the threads the best you can, and shoot them with penetrating lube for the next few days.

Good luck! Let us know how it comes out.

Paul

 

[Cortez]

Thanks Donk - everything is fresh up front, I recently did the ball joints, and spindles and bearings. The main issue is after my work, I could not get the camber shims back into original position so it’s a tad squirrelly. I tried with a cheap magnetic level gauge but couldn’t get it right. I suppose they could give me the diagnosis and I could make adjustments to the shims from there…

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, getting the diagnosis is the first step.
Let them give you a full reading so you know what you’re dealing with. Just because it’s within original spec, doesn’t mean it’s the best it can be.
On the flipside of that though, just because the camber is not within spec, isn’t automatically going to make it squirrelly.
Best to know what all is going on up there. In fact, toe seems to have more effect on squirrelly than camber does. And the caster being off really makes things fun!

You probably already read this, but as a refresher:
Camber is between 1 and 2° positive.
Caster is between 2 and 4° positive
Toe in is between 1/8 and 1/4 inch in.

More desirable settings in the modern era tend to be:
Camber between .5° and 1° positive
Caster between 5° and 8° positive
Toe-in remains the same. And is very sensitive to individual set up on an individual vehicle.

So 1/8” to 1/4” or whatever that equates to in degrees on a modern machine.
But toe in using degrees would be affected by your tire size.
Which is?

 

[DirtDonk]

But don’t let any of that potential price increase keep you from at least asking the people there what they would charge to do some of the work you’re asking.
Sometimes you get lucky and they throw in a good price that makes it worth it.

 

[Cortez]

Thanks for the specs - tire size 35s

 

[bronco italiano]

Where are you located?

 

[Cortez]

Where are you located?

Sarasota Florida

 

[Cortez]

Findings today

Camber: -.1 driver and -.3 passenger.
Caster: +2.2 driver and +2.3 passenger

I had them set the toe in and I will tweak the hub shims myself then get a fresh reading. Any recommendations?

 

[Yeller]

More caster, which would require a radius arm bushing change would be my only suggestion.

 

[Broncobowsher]

The only thing I would expect out of a normal alignment shop would be to set the toe and give you a readout of the rest of the numbers.
Ecentrics are the 'dial it in' that modern stuff runs, that doesn't exist here. The shims on the upper control arm bolts are old school, easy, and probably asking a lot from an alignment shop these days.

Given the numbers you just posted, if manual steering it is as good as it gets. If power steering, a touch more caster would be nice if going there. But I would probably live with it if it drove fine.

 

[Cortez]

The only thing I would expect out of a normal alignment shop would be to set the toe and give you a readout of the rest of the numbers.
Ecentrics are the 'dial it in' that modern stuff runs, that doesn't exist here. The shims on the upper control arm bolts are old school, easy, and probably asking a lot from an alignment shop these days.

Given the numbers you just posted, if manual steering it is as good as it gets. If power steering, a touch more caster would be nice if going there. But I would probably live with it if it drove fine.

Thanks - It’s borderline…not quite as stable as I would like, squirrely with grooves or edges on the road. I used the c-bushings for the 3.5” lift…do I need to go up or down to Resolve the caster?

 

[Yeller]

Needs 7 degree bushings. Unless that is what is in it, then, that’s as good as it’s going to get.

The last truck I did with manual steering still had 4 degrees of caster, it didn’t steer as easily as the spec of 1.5 degrees but it sure drove better.

 

[Cortez]

Needs 7 degree bushings. Unless that is what is in it, then, that’s as good as it’s going to get.

The last truck I did with manual steering still had 4 degrees of caster, it didn’t steer as easily as the spec of 1.5 degrees but it sure drove better.

I think I’m already at 7 degree bushings,

 

[AZ73]

Kind of a side bar question. When I was installing my shocks today and checking for potential interference with tire turning, I noticed my front axle seems to be about an inch shifted to the passenger side, measuring the rim to the frame. Can I adjust this with the track bar?

 

[bronco italiano]

That is what I did on my biddy's bronco.

 

[EPB72]

Kind of a side bar question. When I was installing my shocks today and checking for potential interference with tire turning, I noticed my front axle seems to be about an inch shifted to the passenger side, measuring the rim to the frame. Can I adjust this with the track bar?

If you have an adjustable track bar and if Im understanding corrctly youll need to shorten it up to get the frame?body to shift over to the passenger side so SO YES, you will also have to adjust your drag link as well to recenter your steering wheel ......also check the bushings on your track bar for wear,,

 

[EPB72]

I think I’m already at 7 degree bushings,

then theres always CUT and TURN, inner C's,,,,... or make miner toe adustments and see if you can make it behave better as well as tire pressure changes,, ,, you didn't mention /post toe measurments ,? just curious did you get a print out ,

 

[Cortez]

then theres always CUT and TURN, inner C's,,,,... or make miner toe adustments and see if you can make it behave better as well as tire pressure changes,, ,, you didn't mention /post toe measurments ,? just curious did you get a print out ,

 

[Cortez]

My toe was a little over 1/4” so they backed it off and that helped drivability but the camber is slightly negative so I want them adjust my shins to get a slight positive. Then if there is no joy I will look more to the caster.