another ball joint problem.

[mustanggarage]

hello. I am just starting my early bronco learning experience. I am finding a lot of things are different with this old horse. when I bought my bronco it came with a dana 30 in front, but the prior owner had another set of axles that came with it. (it was his dads bronco, he has passed away, and the guy I bought it from knows very little about the bronco) the second set of axles included a Dana 44. so I decided I wanted to use that one and I have started my rebuild of it. on the first side I could not find a snap ring on the lower ball joint, and could not see where one would fit. I could see no snap ring groove. I pressed the ball joints out. they were very stuck but I got them out. I cleaned the knuckle up thouroughly and powder coated it. I made like a test bearing out of the old ball joints by sanding the outside down so that I could slip them into place to keep the powder out of the mating surfaces. then I tried to install the new ball joints I got from wild horses. I pressed the new ball joint in all the way and I could not even see the ring groove so I pressed it back out, used a dremel to sand the inner mating surface a bit to make absolutely sure it was completely clean. I also beveled the outer surface just a bit to make sure all the powder was out of the way. then I pressed it back in. this is what I see.
completely seated


this is the bottom



so I looked at the other side. it also had no snap ring installed. I pressed the ball joints out without much trouble.

lower



upper.



so my conundrum. I have no idea if someone replaced these ball joints before. probably. did they use the wrong ball joints? who knows. my new ball joints from wild horses look exactly the same when they are pressed in except that the new upper ball joints have no snap ring groove.

I went ahead and ordered a new set of moog ball joints from rock auto, but this is getting expensive I have had a lot of difficulty getting correct parts and I have ended up buying parts multiple times. it is very aggravating.

so anyway. the axle had no snap rings on it, why? and are they necessary?

any help would be appreciated.

 

[Timstrk]

FWIW. Mine are only on the bottom set. I put them in 20 yrs ago and had to go look at them to see if there were any there at all. They haven't fallen out yet.

 

[mustanggarage]

yes my reading says they should be on the bottom but the old ball joints had none and there is no way to get one on the new set hopefully the moog will work better

 

[sykanr0ng]

If you are buying Moog ball joints avoid their Problem Solver line, those are oversized to work with loose holes and if forced into regular sized holes will be the only ones that ever fit after that.

 

[mustanggarage]

If you are buying Moog ball joints avoid their Problem Solver line, those are oversized to work with loose holes and if forced into regular sized holes will be the only ones that ever fit after that.

thank you for that timely bit of information. that was exactly what I had ordered. I guess I will have to wait until monday and order the NAPA premium version that it seems are the best option. if the consensus is that I need that lock ring despite the fact their was not one on there before.

 

[DirtDonk]

Your knuckles could have been cast slightly thick, covering part of the ring groove. Are you sure it's a Bronco axle by the way? Assume yes, as only the Ford stuff would have the radius arm wedges and driver's side drop. Pretty obvious when it's not correct.

But inconsistencies abound. I've seen more than my fair share of ball joints without rings on them. But when there is room, 95% of them have had a ring on the lower joint. Some didn't, but like you said about yours, no way to tell it's history and if it left the factory that way or not.
Never a ring on an upper that I've seen.

As you figured, even a tiny bit of powder coating left on the collar surface would be sufficient to keep the joint from seating far enough to clear the ring groove. So while you're at all this, definitely double check it.

If your new joints work where ours did not, we'll take them back from you so you're not out that bit. So no worries yet about that.
Good luck though. Would suck if it was just a bit of powder, but from your description and the pics, it looks like your old ones could have been original and there was just never enough clearance to begin with.
The really odd thing though, is that it looks like you have more clearance on your upper than normal! Geez...%)

Frankly, even though I've seen plenty without rings and never a dropped knuckle (you'd usually have to be jumping it or hitting really big bumps anyway), if I could get a ring in I would. Even if it's the top joint.
So if your top groove has enough clearance, throw one in there. If you can get almost enough clearance on a lower, sand down a snap-ring thin enough to fit. Even in such a large construct as a heavy axle, even a thin ring is sufficient. Certainly better than none!

Paul

 

[mustanggarage]

thanks for the reply dirtdonk and the advice. i was able to cancel the moog order and order the napa premium ones so i will try them when they get in

 

[mustanggarage]

well, the napa ball joints are basically the same. but they do have a snap ring groove on the upper ball joint so I was able to put one in there. I don't really see why that should not accomplish the same purpose as putting it on the lower. so I put the snap ring on them. I will have to keep a close eye on things once I get it all assembled, if I can remember to do that so many years from now lol.

 

[DirtDonk]

Well good-o. Nice feeling to have at least one ring on there to work with. Give you a little peace of mind.

Paul