Another Caster Question...

[Shimmy]

did you post your caster numbers? take it for a real alignment and get those. from what i've seen caster between 5-7 will set you straight and you'll be at east cruising at 70mph and one hand on the wheel.

some potential solutions:
JD t rex arms
radius arm drop brackets
cut and turn

lets see your caster numbers before exploring other options.

EDIT: my caster is 5.5* and she tracks straight all day long.

 

[Torkman66]

Have an appointment to get the alignment numbers tomorrow. I'll post back. But for research purposes, assuming my castor is not good enough (likely) what's next? Drop arm brackets? New arms? I am concerned those will help castor but drive my pinon angle too much. Realize that is the tradeoff by doing it this way rather than cutting the Cs. How much pinon angle for a street driver is acceptable? If drop arms got me 4* more caster, that would likely fix the stability, but not sure what the consequenses will be for the pinon. Thoughts?

 

[Oldtimer]

. . . and when you hit a bump in a turn, you have to be paying attention...clearly not good.

Bump steer?
How about a straight on photo showing track bar, drag link and tierod relationships?

 

[Shimmy]

you are correct. one trade off for another, which is why so many here do the cut and turn. pinion angle doesn't matter so much for street since you wont be in 4wd much or at all... let alone articulating the suspension while in 4wd. in fact you could remove your DS. i'll let others chime in with what is acceptable without binding.

 

[Torkman66]

@Oldtimer Here are some pics of the front end. Looks like parallel. Everything else look ok?

 

[Shimmy]

hard to tell from the pic but you'll want to point that DL/TR joint up toward the radiator. it should be at an angle

 

[Oldtimer]

Angles look parallel and tie rod is one piece, so probably not bump steer.

Is there a gap between upper balljoint washer and inner "C"s??

Also check torque on rear axle U-bolts.

EDIT: The bottom side of your Bronco is disgustingly clean.

 

[Torkman66]

@Shimmy Thx. Yea, before I worked on the toe this morning it was pointed up more...I'll take care of that. Thanks!
Talked to Duffs about options. Their T-Rex arms sound like the way to go. I have the original arms and to be honest they are not great anyway. Should have replaced them during the build. He said the arms will give me another 3 to 3.5* caster. That will likley be just right. I'll get the actual alignment numbers tomorrow to see what I need. With the T-Rex may be able to go down to the 4* bushings. As noted, tradeoff in all of this is the pinon angle. But this is a show/street Bronco. While it will not see offroad use, I still want the 4wd to be functional. Will know so much more tomorrow.

 

[Torkman66]

@Oldtimer so yesterday I removed the standard balljoint sleeves (the ones that screw into the top balljoint yoke with the special tool) and replaced them with the caster/camber adjustment sleeves. They are designed to give another 1.5* caster. They are a bit odd in that you do not preload them. Instructions say to screw them in until 1/8" is sticking above top of yoke surface then use the wedged washer, and tighten nut to 100#s. So yes, there is what looks like a gap but the nut and washer are actually sitting on top of the caster sleeve and torqued down.

Torque on rear axle u-bolts is 120# (5/8" bolts with WH extreme plate).Just did this last week when installing traction bar arms.

 

[DirtDonk]

Definitely get the numbers before deciding on new arms.
Caster should not be your main problem at this point. If it’s anything over 2 1/2, you should not have squirrelly handling.
And adding still more is definitely going to wreck your chances of using 4-wheel drive and having the u-joint last long.
When you get the tie-rod rotated back up, do the dry steering test and see if anything else is moving.

 

[Apogee]

I had to use an offset u-joint on mine when I updated to the current 3.5" lift and CAGE long arms many years ago. The arms have 4.25° additional caster built into them and I believe I had the 4° bushings originally. With that combination, I could not run standard u-joints without binding at ride height, and it just got worse with down travel on the suspension, but with the offset joint, it would run okay with a mild to moderate vibration at speed. I am currently in the process of rotating the knuckles and wedges on an F150 HPD44, so aside from all of the other issues I've created with steering and track bar and such, the caster and pinion angles should finally be put to bed.

 

[DirtDonk]

I’ve never heard instructions anything remotely resembling that! So the washer hole isn’t large enough to go around the sleeve? It sits on top?

 

[DirtDonk]

When you put the sleeves on, did you recheck knuckle tension?
Having them too loose or too tight could also contribute to your steering woes.

 

[toddz69]

@Oldtimer so yesterday I removed the standard balljoint sleeves (the ones that screw into the top balljoint yoke with the special tool) and replaced them with the caster/camber adjustment sleeves. They are designed to give another 1.5* caster. They are a bit odd in that you do not preload them. Instructions say to screw them in until 1/8" is sticking above top of yoke surface then use the wedged washer, and tighten nut to 100#s. So yes, there is what looks like a gap but the nut and washer are actually sitting on top of the caster sleeve and torqued down.

Can you post those instructions? I've never heard of anything like that either and that doesn't sound right to me...

Todd Z.

 

[Torkman66]

Paul, I think I know what you mean by "dry steering test" but please describe to be sure. I agree that with the 7* bushings and now the caster balljoint sleeve and only a 2.5 lift, caster should be fine. That is why I am wondering if maybe when installing the arms I somehow tightened them down with the bushing not aligned to the axle wedges just right. The bushings are 100% in correctly ( I can post pics). It was difficult to get the arm caps on...had to use extended bolts at first. Also wondered if there might be anything with the bushings at the other end at frame that are too tight, misaligned, or something. As said, will know more tomoorrow after I get the numbers.

 

[Torkman66]

 

[Oldtimer]

These?

The instructions MAY be misleading?

Do they mean 1/8" BELOW the top of the yolk.
Then the tapered washer would sit on the "C". and the nut would would be flat against washer, and there would be no gaps.

Full instructions attached below.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, in typically vague worded form, the instructions indicate that you should install the sleeve until it’s approximately 1/8 of an inch below the top of the steering yoke.
Achieving at least close to the proper tension adjustment should supersede the caster/camber correction every time.

 

[Torkman66]

Geez, I think your right. That sure makes more sense. I did read in another application article that you do not have a preload with these sleeves. Easy fix. I'll do it now. I should have been more aware because I sure thought it strange that you would do it like that. That was stupid!

 

[DirtDonk]

There’s always the need for a preload adjustment.
Changing the sleeve to an offset one doesn’t change the necessity of preloading the knuckle, as specified by the factory and original manufacturer of the part.
Changing to an offset ball joint eccentric might change the dynamic at which the adjustments are achieved, and you do want to er slightly to the side of adjusting your caster and or camber. But not so much to the point of negating all of the necessary preload adjustment.
Sacrificing one aspect entirely for another is not an option

I’m not sure how they get away with wording that says preload adjustment is no longer a thing.