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Anyone gone overkill on rear U-bolt diameter

mofoco1

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Has anyone gone really oversized on the rear U-Bolts, how big I mean wire size can you go with the spring plate, how long do they have to be for a stock leaf pack and for an eleven leaf pack. PO used some friggin long bolts and blocks. On that note I am in the market for some new or n=near new stock height eleven leafers(hint hint). Preferably near central CA. Thanks...Mo in Clovis
 

Bronchole

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I got a set from Wild Horses (I think). I beleive they are 5/8 in diameter. I also go their HD spring plates to go with them. I really like they way they work. Much more confident with them over the stock ones.
 
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mofoco1

mofoco1

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Thanks guys I had some made but they are too long as I am going stock and I really dont want to cut them, so I am selling and buy the right size. I like the plates, but their u-bolts are too long still....Mo
 

DirtDonk

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Upgrading to anything larger than stock is a good idea. In the old days we rarely broke a Bronco u-bolt. But nowadays, with larger tires, torquier engines, bigger obstacles, a heavy right foot and perhaps 40+ year old hardware, it's much easier to snap you some u-bolts.

Even a 9/16 bolt diameter is a nice upgrade. Like Bronchole said, we use 5/8 in our Extreme kits. Just because we can and overkill is just enough.
You "can" use these sizes with the stock spring plates, but they get flimsier the bigger you go.
You need to make sure to drill the holes out towards the outside though, as just enlarging them to fit the larger bolts will cause trouble as you interfere with the spring packs themselves.
And with the recommended torque even for the 9/16, but especially for the 5/8 bolt size, I would think the stock plate would bend pretty good just tightening the bolts.
Worth upgrading to a much thicker material at the same time for that reason alone I would say.

Can't help with the length, as every spring pack and nut type is going to change the requirements. I'm guessing though, that starting at about 7" to 7.5" long for stock ones would not be out of line. You'll just have to measure you're own though, and make adjustments for 5 or 6 leaf variations, and whether or not you have add-a-leaves and what size top plate you go with.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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mofoco1

mofoco1

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I hear you. Question for you. You guys sell a stock height 11 pack or am I wrong. If so what length u-bolt with the extreme pads? I am going to tow a 3500 trailer and my last 75 sagged under it and not sure I want airbags.. Thanks..Mo
 

DirtDonk

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The stock height spring pack is a 10-leaf pack (close enough though) so not quite as thick, but I'd say that the leaf packs are so close to the same overall thickness that they'd take the same u-bolts.
I don't know this with 100% certainty, so I'll check or ask on Monday when I'm at the shop, but I'm betting that all leaf packs from us are roughly the same thickness, but with less or more arch to make up the difference. Remember, when talking this type of spring, much of the actual lift is achieved through the sheer height of the spring pack itself. Any additional height needed is attained through a combination of more arch and/or heavier individual leaves.

So even though there are going to be slight variations in height between the different packs, the same u-bolts fit, but with a little extra thread showing with the shorter packs.

Make sense?
And although I have measured the actual size of the u-bolts as recently as a month or so ago, I have no recollection of just how long they are.
Easy enough to find out though, if you need to know. Let me know.

Paul
 
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mofoco1

mofoco1

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If you wouldn't mind measuring that would be great. Are the 10 pack stockers up to the task for towing or? What's the width too please, As I am not sure if these that I have are even bronco springs.....Mo
 

DirtDonk

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Don't mind at all. But now it's Tuesday, so I'm not in the office.
I'll get with one of the other guys though, and see if I can get the measurement for you.

Hang in there a bit. Might be tomorrow before I can get that info.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Nevermind. One of the guys just went out and measured one for you. Said they come in at just shy of 3" tall/thick, so say 2 7/8 and you should be good.

Width-wise, you're probably still stock. I'm sure there are some out there with different setups of course, but it's so rare that yours is likely using stock-ish dimensions.
Changing would require at least one new frame hanger and a new shackle, so most people don't mess with it.

Stock width is approx. 2 1/4" wide. Not exactly in most cases, but you can use that as your basic reference dimension.

Paul
 
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mofoco1

mofoco1

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Stock 10 leaf pack and stock varible height front coils?

Thanks Paul, I think these are stock by your measurements, but PO in an attempt at creating a taller spring added some leafs and they are not all tapered, but I assume cut up leafs from a full size. They didn't even close the clamps back up or bothered to cut the original 12" ubolts they used or the 6" centering pin! Real wieners. So final ?'s. What about their towing capacity. I have a pop up trailer that weighs in at 3500lbs loaded. I am doing an overkill multi-point hitch and boxing the rear horns to handle the attachment, and am going to run a swaybar for the hitch as well as a swaybar for the Bronco. Is the 10 pack up to towing on a fairly regular basis on it's own, or do you think it needs a supplement, like an airbag out back. In conjunction with that your variable rate stock coils, will they handle it and how do they act when you ad a front 8274 and HD winch. I am trying to stay stock height as I am leaving the EB uncut , but am leaving the 3" BL since the intake carb combo wont fit without it and I do not want to change the hood or add a scoop?
Thanks...Mo in Clovis, CA
 

DirtDonk

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No precise answer to to the tow/haul rating of the springs. We don't have an official rating that I'm aware of, so I'll have to ask what the others think from their experiences and customer feedback and get back to you on that.

Basically though, I don't think they're designed with specifically more or less towing capability than the stock ones. More leaves does not necessarily mean more capacity. It "can" of course, but not always.
The main criteria are usually better articulation without losing decent and safe street handling characteristics, while maintaining a reasonable ability to carry your gear to the trails.
You're actually quite likely to sit a bit high in the rear at first too, while the springs settle in, but that doesn't mean they won't drop down some when you hook up the trailer either.

And remember too, an EB's "hauling" capacity (weight carrying) is measured in the barely hundreds of pounds. From a low of maybe 250lbs to a high of perhaps 750 lbs max I would bet. I'm basing that on expected and actual curb weights of from 3900 to about 4200 lbs with stock-ish to mildy modified rigs. With GVWR ratings of what, 4400 to 4900 lbs? I forget what ratings they had, but that sounds about right.
That would include not only spring rates, but wheel bearing and axle size, and especially brake size.

So along with your approx. 350 lb tongue weight (based on a properly balanced standard 3500lb trailer) and a couple of people and stuff in the back, you're pretty close to, or over the maximum factory haul ratings right there. And I doubt that an EB has anywhere near a 3500 lb tow rating.
To that end, as you probably know, NO spring or helper will increase the legal tow capacity of any vehicle.

I don't remember what an EB's actual rated towing capacity is. Most likely between 1500 and 2500 lbs MAXIMUM if even that. I can't remember ever having seen anything in print.
Maybe this is a good time to bring that subject back up actually. We know plenty of us use our rigs to tow overly heavy loads and usually get away with it, but does anyone have a brochure or paperwork showing an actual rated and stated towing capacity from Ford?
I'd sure be interested in seeing what they said about that.

In the meantime, I'll get some better info (if it exists) and let you know.

Paul

PS: Oh, and since you're talking about towing, what condition are your rear wheel bearings in? If they've got over 75k miles on them, or you don't know their age, put new ones in BEFORE you tow.
 
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mofoco1

mofoco1

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Much food for thought Paul. Everything except the actual axles and housing will be new. ll new Timken bearings, seals , Lincoln rotors, and rebuilt calipers and pads new SS brakelines, and I am also installing a rear axle gusset as well as doing the new U-bolts and pads. Pretty much the same for the fronts with the exception of T-bird big caliper upgrade from Chuck. I have talked to a few trailer people today, and they feel that if I set up the Bronco like I have mentioned, it should have no problem towing the spec'd weight safely. They said that they back in the day sold and set up EB's with hitches tow tow larger trailers than what I came in there with( they were more like the canned hame style and airstreams. They mentioned that a big problem with towing was the wind buck that regular trailers experience and transmit to the tow vehicle. he mentioned that it should be near negligent with the pop trailer as the EB actually has an air dam effect, being that it is taller than the trailer. He said that when it get's closer to being ready to get on the road to bring the trailer in and they would weigh the tongue and see if we could canti-lever the weight a bit, especiallly since I having them install a hitch onto the back of the trailer to carrier the generator, he said he could make it so that the trailer would almost balance itself on the tires, taking a great amount of TW off the hitch. They installed my disk brakes on the trailer last year so I am confident that they know what they are talking about as that's what they do for a living.(plus they were around when our EB's were new. They said that the pop ups are meant to be towed with as little a a Ford ranger, I have seen little mini vans tow trailers exactly like mine with no problem up and down Cuesta Grade en-route to Pismo with no problem and I have actually( though I probably shouldn't have ) towed my 59 Rambler station wagon home a few years back and never had issues and that weighed a hell of a lot more. Again it was set up with dual shocks all the way around, disks and it was fine. I am also the A-hole that actually drives 55mph and causes those back ups. While the idiots in the Powerstroke 350's hauling the 40ft Weekend Warrior pass me at 75-80mph on the way back to Fresno. Even when I had my Centurion and 34ft WW I would pass only if someone was going maybe 50mph up Cuesta Grade. I guess ones set up and driving have a huge part in this. I will take all advise into consideration though...thanks...Mo
 

DirtDonk

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Yeah, I wasn't actually too worried about towing a pop-up since that type of trailer can tow like they're not even there sometimes. However, you can't be too careful when discussing towing with an EB. So I always like to talk about as many options and potential pitfalls and obstacles as possible.

Not sure you want a trailer that's completely balanced though, vs at least some tongue weight on the hitch. Like you though, I guess I'll leave that up to the trailer setup experts. I'm sure they know lots of trailer-somethings that I don't on the subject. I was just always taught that for proper towing balance you needed a certain amount of weight on the tongue.
That's probably to reduce the tail-wagging-the-dog scenarios, which these trailers are not as likely to initiate as others are.
Still, an EB is a super short wheelbase, high COG vehicle, with notoriously bad stock brakes, so anything they can do to reduce that tendency would be a good thing.

For our discussion, you're probably looking at about the stock carrying capacity from the spring standpoint. If you end up needing more, the recommended procedure is to add leaves as you need.
I would recommend trying them as-is first then. Especially if your guys end up setting you up with a neutral balance or light-tongue trailer. No need for too much stiffness or expense if it's not needed.

Sounds like it's going to be practically band new and super stout. With good brakes and a firm suspension then, you should be well on your way.

Paul
 
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mofoco1

mofoco1

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Can never be too careful right, I assumed a bit of TW he just made the comment that if I wanted they could get it to teeter. I am trying to do everything to keep it as stable as possible. With single wheels on the trailer it really needs the anti swaybar on the hitch, it is small enough not to require a weight distribution hitch and bars but a single friction type swaybar works well. I called the shop and they said that the stock springs will raise the back a hair till it settles, I ordered some brackets that I am going to weld to the spring pad and make an airbag mount, Figure this can only help and is temporary and used only when needed....Mo;D
 
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