• Welcome to ClassicBroncos! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all the site features, please take a moment to register. It's fast, simple and absolutely free. So please join our community today!
    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

Battery Cable Size

grinnergetter

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
59
Hey everyone, finishing up my Painless wiring install and need new cables. Trying to find a guide or thread pertaining to cable sizing for starter circuit etc.

Id love to have a stroked 302 someday so attempting to plan ahead. Bronc will have additions such as winch, exterior lighting, additional fuse panel.

From research it appears 1/0 is good but is 2/0 really any better? Those sorts of answers is what I'm looking for.

I searched but cannot seem to find the right thread...I know it's there.%)

Thanks
 

EricLar80

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,170
You can expect to see ~250 amps for cranking/starting, delivered at 12V. If you want to see no more than a 2% drop in voltage during cranking, then you can get away with a 2ga wire going to the starter if it is less than 6 feet long.

10k warn winch pulls 502 amps maximum @ 12V. In that case, you can get away with a 1/0 gauge for up to about 4.75 feet going to the winch from the battery.

Your best alternators are providing ~225 amps. Going from the alternator to the battery you can use the same 2ga wire for the starter.

Going up a gauge doesn't hurt, and I bet that you would not get a 10k winch. Maybe an 8k. In that case I would just wire everything with 1ga wire. You will not see any advantage going to 2/0 cable, but it won't hurt anything except your wallet.

Tin plated marine battery cable is the best thing to use because it has fine strands of copper so it will be very flexible and the tin prevents oxidation.
 
Last edited:

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
9,419
Loc.
PNW
Everything Ericlar80 said... go 1/0 for a winch. Remember that charts showing sizes don't factor things like terminal ends on them, aren't 2 or 20 yrs old for more resistance, etc.

Welding wire is great, flexible and lugs are found easily also. I went 1/0 with my 9500# and wished I'd gone with 2/0. A 225 amp alternator would be nice. :)
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,679
And the factory cables I just took off my big block are 6 gauge.
Modern permeant magnet starters draw about half the amperage of the old school starters.
4 gauge is a nice upgrade for a starter. Even a modest high amp alternator.
If you are looking at 2 gauge or larger there better be a diesel engine and a couple batteries involved. Larger than 2 gauge you are pointless as the battery itself has the internal resistance you can't overcome with cables. You have severe issues if 2 gauges isn't overkill. I will grant a pass if there is an excessive length of cable involved, as in the length of the vehicle.
 

EricLar80

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,170
And the factory cables I just took off my big block are 6 gauge.
Modern permeant magnet starters draw about half the amperage of the old school starters.
4 gauge is a nice upgrade for a starter. Even a modest high amp alternator.
If you are looking at 2 gauge or larger there better be a diesel engine and a couple batteries involved. Larger than 2 gauge you are pointless as the battery itself has the internal resistance you can't overcome with cables. You have severe issues if 2 gauges isn't overkill. I will grant a pass if there is an excessive length of cable involved, as in the length of the vehicle.

The new starters are great; it's one of the better upgrades I ever made. I pounded on my original starter with a hammer and replaced it more times than I care to remember...
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
9,419
Loc.
PNW
Broncobowsher you are saying a battery has too much internal resistance to overcome with cables???

Meaning what-that a battery can't allow more than 300 or so amps or whatever the max ampacity of a 2ga wire is because it won't allow any more amperage out of it's terminals because of internal resistance?

Not a car battery. Not thru the standard top terminals (not the side terminals).

Your saying that with the engine off then you couldn't run a typical winch motor when its drawing several hundred amps or more...so no need for a larger than 2 ga cable unless the battery is so far away you are figuring resistance/voltage loss?

Sorry- that is incorrect. A Warn 8274 or my 9500 draws up to 500 amps at full load...yes I have run it where it has got to be full load with the engine off and it worked. A 2 ga wire would have melted...and I've seen them melt in half
 

Attachments

  • 20200414_214906.jpg
    20200414_214906.jpg
    125.4 KB · Views: 56
Last edited:

EricLar80

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,170
BTW a the sizes I listed above were calculated for voltage drop, meaning they are the right size for the listed applications and lengths and should not overheat. However, I did choose higher than average specs for each component because the OP is future proofing, and so who knows what he will put in down the line. I agree with nvrstck, you could go a little larger on the winch cable just as a precautionary measure just because they can draw so much current in a critical situation.
 
OP
OP
G

grinnergetter

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
59
Just to confirm...2ga or a step up is good from battery to solenoind and then to starter. 1/0 for winch wiring. I seem to remember the Warn kits coming with 1/0.

My solenoid to starter wire will prob end up a little under 4 feet.

Regarding the terminals. Shore is alot of debate on soldering vs crimping. Just like most things. Sometimes online research does more to confuse and remove confidence rather than build it. LOL

Thanks everyone!
 

68Broncoz

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Messages
405
How true this statement,

"Sometimes online research does more to confuse and remove confidence rather than build it."

At some point you have to use your best judgment and experience.
 
OP
OP
G

grinnergetter

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
59
Another question....Looking at my megafuse holder. Id think I need a jumper from the output side of the solenoid to the megafuse or another heavier(2g) wire from the battery.

My question, the mega fuse was a landing pad for switched B+ for headlights, A/C etc. I had originally planned on using a relay/fuse panel inside my tool box(pic). Now I'm thinking of just using an accessory 7 circuit Painless fuse panel which only requires a 10g wire to feed it. Seems there should be a smaller fuse for each accessory inside the tool box rather than a large amount of amps sitting there feeding each......correct? I'm probably thinking too much again. No, I might be right. Hell

Nother one, if Painless gives you 4 constant B+ out of their fuse panel...what accessories would be wired to those? I don't have elec fans or fuel pump. What could I use them for? Leave them for later?

FYI...I made a custom console to hold switches and fuse panels inside. It will be used for seat heaters, roof light, interior lights, aux bumper lights, remote winch control, charging ports, etc..

Suggestions appreciated.
 

bmc69

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,915
Me..I just run every cable with the 1/0 marine-rated battery cable that I stock for my boat wiring.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,364
Looking at my megafuse holder. Id think I need a jumper from the output side of the solenoid to the megafuse or another heavier(2g) wire from the battery.

We need a picture of what you're talking about.
The output side of the starter relay has nothing to do with the Mega Fuse. It runs to the starter and that's it.

My question, the mega fuse was a landing pad for switched B+ for headlights, A/C etc. I had originally planned on using a relay/fuse panel inside my tool box(pic). Now I'm thinking of just using an accessory 7 circuit Painless fuse panel which only requires a 10g wire to feed it. Seems there should be a smaller fuse for each accessory inside the tool box rather than a large amount of amps sitting there feeding each......correct? I'm probably thinking too much again. No, I might be right. Hell

I don't have any real idea what you're talking about. Pics?
An aux fuse panel, by definition, has individual fuses for the loads/accessories you're speaking of already. And yes they do need fuses.
And yes, 10ga wire is usually more than sufficient for most loads this aux fuse panel is going to see.

What's the Mega Fuse for? Just the alternator charging wire, correct? The Maxi-Fuse in your box is for the main accessories and standard fuse panel. If you want another fuse panel you could feed off of that and upgrade to a higher load fuse, or better yet give it it's own fuse so you don't risk overloading one 10ga wire if it's in distress.

To the comment about amps, none of the accessories sees larger amperage feeding to it than what it asks for. A heater motor is going to take, for example, 20a whether your alternator is a 20a unit or a 200a unit. And whether you use 20ga wire or 2/0 welding cable. If it only needs 20a to work, then that's all it gets.
Current is "pulled" through the wires, not "pushed" into the wires for everything.

if Painless gives you 4 constant B+ out of their fuse panel...what accessories would be wired to those? I don't have elec fans or fuel pump. What could I use them for? Leave them for later?

Yes, most likely.
What do you have that needs constant 12v that is not already handled? Headlights and brake lights? Should be handled. Hazards? Should be handled? Horn? Ditto.
If you can think of something that needs it but is not already included in the normal wiring, that's what they're for.
So yes, keep them for later unless you know what you need now.

You might end up using one of them for a small fuse panel for just small accessories such as interior LED lights or something.
Anything that you are NOT likely to leave on after you leave the vehicle and drain the battery.
I use mine for communications sometimes, because I don't usually need anything else running while in camp waiting for stragglers to show up on the radio. But not many need radios anymore.

Extra power ports over and above what you already have wired in when something else strikes you as necessary.

Paul
 

Steve83

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
9,126
Loc.
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Shore is alot of debate on soldering vs crimping.
Here's a way to simplify it: under what conditions would a battery terminal become hot enough to melt solder?

If the terminal is clean & tight, any Lead post is rated to handle the highest current of any battery with Lead posts, and the Group 65 can be had with ratings above 1,000 Cranking Amps (CA). So we know it would take more current than that to overheat the terminal. So under what conditions would your early Bronco draw more than 1,000A? I have a 12,000lb worm-drive electric winch, and at full-stall, it draws less than 400A. Old starters draw <200A; modern PMGRs draw ~120A. So to get >1KA going through a terminal, I guess you'd have to intentionally hold a lug wrench or some other HEAVY conductor straight across the battery terminals (which would cause the battery to explode within a few seconds).

So assuming something like that happens, do you really want the cables to STAY in the terminals because they're crimped? Or would you prefer that the solder melts, releasing the cables, and possibly disconnecting the short, saving the battery, the cables, the truck, and your life?

I'm going for option B, for that and several OTHER even-better (more-likely) reasons.
 
OP
OP
G

grinnergetter

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
59
Thanks Steve83 understood.

On my F250 we ran a separate large wire from battery to a maxifuse and then that wire ran into a JY fuse/relay box. We ran my elec bucket seats off of that leaving me with a ton of extra circuits for any additions. Initially I was just following that idea. I might be missing some of my memory on how that was setup. Have not seen that truck since the fall.

I think I overthunk it. I can just run that 10gauge wire to a B+ source and call it a day for now. The winch, I can worry about later. Along with the use of the maxifuse.

I hope I explained this so that it makes sense.

I may be confusing maxi fuse with mega?
 
Top