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Battery dead

triracer67

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Nov 29, 2010
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648
Took the Bronco out for it's first drive since buying and putting together. The battery is brand new. I did have ignition issues that did put a strain on the battery, but I always put the charging on the battery. When I start the motor and drove it yesterday the voltmeter climbs to 30, then slowly settles back to around 0 after a few minutes of the motor running. I got in to go for a ride this morning and the battery was dead. Do I have something draining the battery, or can it be the VR. I did recently install an MSD ignition, that is wired per the directions, that includes the large red wire to the battery. I'm charging the battery and will test the volts when it's running, but wanted to get ahead of the game since something is wrong.
 

bknbronco

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first thing first......pull the pos bat terminal and hook a test light between the pos terminal and the pos cable. If the light turns on you got a draw and that's whats killing the battery. Just remember to pull the radio as this will give you a false reading because of the constant memory draw.

Also if you killed the battery it more than likely will never come back to full life. It may still work but its not good far a normal starting battery to be drained that low.

If you have a old school mechanical VR now is the perfect time to swap in a new electronic VR. You can tell the new style because the back will be completely epoxyed over rather than just a metal backing plate.

Another red flag is the fact that your ampmeter started at 30 and only after a few minutes its back to 0. A bad battery not only discharges quickly but charges quickly also. Could be a bad cell. A dead battery should take hours to charge not minutes.

Id charge the battery and then take it to a battery store and have them pull the water caps off and put a huge charge to it. If any of the cells bubble a lot more than the others it has a bad cell. Better to diagnose the battery first before spending too much time trouble shooting the bronco. They cant just do a load test....they have to check for a bad cell by pulling the water caps.

Then id start the bronco and check to see that the battery has the 14 volts because of the alt. That will rule out the alt.
 
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Steve83

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Jul 16, 2003
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First: charge the battery with a plug-in charger - NOT an alternator. Keep it between 2-10A for many hours. The longer & lower, the better.

Second: never run an engine with a dead battery, or without a battery (unless it's an emergency). If you want to work on the truck while the battery is charging, find a charged battery to put in it.

Third: load testing a battery is OK, but it's not the best. Try to find a shop (like most dealerships of all makes) with a MidTronics high-frequency tester, similar to this:

 
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triracer67

triracer67

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Trickle charged the battery back up, I'm getting ready to fire up and check voltage while running. How is the electronic VR better. I have the stock ammeter that is in the gauge cluster, my history has told me that it shows the charge, is this the case? The battery is new, which confuses me why it would drain in about 15 hours with no obvious power draw.
 

DirtDonk

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Yes, when you saw that reading of 30 after starting it before, it was indicating that your battery was being recharged by the alternator. Slowly coming down to near zero is how it is supposed to act, but as bkn said, too fast might indicate a fault. However, it's kind of hard to tell from that unless you know what is "normal" for your battery.
They don't always take too long to come back to zero, so that indicator might not be your best.

That same meter should show any drain on the system from normal sources too. In that case you could see the needle go to the negative side of the range when the engine is not running.
You can test this by simply turning on the headlights or turn the key to ACC and fire up the heater fan. Either of these will show a negative reading when the engine is not running.
If your battery is draining then, and pulling fuses doesn't stop it. And you don't show a drain on the ammeter, I would look to any aftermarket items, such as a radio or your ignition.
However, don't overlook the alternator itself as a source of the drain.

The way your MSD is hooked up, it won't show on the ammeter if it's draining. The big Red wire gos straight to battery power, but the small Red one (or whatever color is being used by them) goes to a keyed source. If it's got 12v all the time, the ignition might drain the battery.
If the culprit is a bad diode or three in the alternator itself, I don't think it will show up on the ammeter either.

If it continues to drain before you're able to find out what is causing it, you can disconnect the battery negative over night so the drain stops.
 
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triracer67

triracer67

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I trickle charged the battery back to full charge and it fired right up, ammeter shows initial 30 charge and then slowly settled down after after five minutes. Voltmeter at battery post while running showed 17ish, that seems normal, I think? I disconnect the positive and hooked test light across the terminal and cable, it glowed bright, I also used voltmeter between and it registered 12 volts? I think the draw is the new msd box, I have it hooked according to msd directions, but something is drawing a lot. I will dig into the electrical tomorrow, battery is disconnected for now.
 

pbwcr

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Jul 11, 2007
Messages
641
* A voltage as high as 17 with the engine running indicated a bad voltage regulator.
* A battery voltage as low as 12 indicates a discharged battery.
Fix those two things and report back

FYI:
-- A good regulator will limit the max voltage at 14.4 to 15 volts
-- A fully charged 12v battery will read close to 12.8 volts. At 12 volts it is around 75% charged. A load test on the battery would be a good thing to do. Your local battery shop will do it for free.
PaulW
 

Steve83

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Jul 16, 2003
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Loc.
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
How is the electronic VR better.
The stock mechanical VR has 2 internal switches, giving it 3 possible charge rates. The electronic has nearly infinite charging levels.
...it shows the charge, is this the case?
If you're lucky, it will show large or sudden changes. But it's not large, precise, or accurate enough to show small or slow changes. You can't even be sure where "0" is.
...why it would drain in about 15 hours with no obvious power draw.
A typical Gr.65 stores about 70Ah of energy when FULLY charged in good condition. For it to drain in 15h, it only takes a ~5A draw. That's about half what the headlights use in LOW beam. With the key off, turn on the headlights. Does the ammeter show it distinctly enough for you to have noticed before you were really watching? If not (as I suspect), then your 15h draw would be less-than-half as distinct.
If the culprit is a bad diode or three in the alternator itself, I don't think it will show up on the ammeter either.
Yes, it would if it's a big enough draw, for the same reason that a charge coming out of the alt shows up.

If it continues to drain before you're able to find out what is causing it, you can disconnect the battery negative over night so the drain stops.
...and if the battery still dies (after another FULL charge), it means the battery is bad. So it's a good test to do.
 
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triracer67

triracer67

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follow up

I unhooked everything and still had voltage going through, until I unhooked the voltage regulator, then the voltage stopped. Is the VR bad?
 

broncnaz

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May 22, 2003
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Most likely the VR is bad as was said 17v is to high and indicates that its not working properly.
 

joshnjulie1

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Moreno Valley, Ca
Hopefully you found the issue right off, that's great. If not, check out the "battery Drain & Troubleshooting thread I had to start for possible other scenarios.

Hopefully just your VR though.
 
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triracer67

triracer67

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sorry, it's been a while, but still haven't solved. I did replace the VR, still draining. I removed all fuses, including radio and tach, and even unhooked MSD box. Placed a tester light between battery and unhooked positive cable, it glows bright. When I unhook the VR, the light goes out. Again, new VR. Is the alternator bad? I have three wires going to the alternator, orange, white and black. The orange wire goes to the post with the white plastic washer, white wire goes to post with black plastic washer, and black wire goes to post with red plastic washer. There is not ground, should there be? It's a 76. I do think it's odd that when I removed the vr it stops drawing. Again, thanks for the help.
 
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triracer67

triracer67

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Okay, went one step farther and removed the three wires from the back of the alternator. When I removed the orange one, the tester light shows zero draw, removing the white and black didn't make any difference, only the orange. Is this because the alternator is bad, or is that the link to the battery through the vr? I do have a fiberglass tub, do I need to ground the VR?
thanks
 
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DirtDonk

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...When I unhook the VR, the light goes out. Again, new VR.

Unfortunately, from your next post stating a non-grounded VR, it's very possible that you're frying them as soon as you hook them up.
Yes, some will survive, so I would go ahead and ground it first. Then, if it still causes a drain, replace it.. Again.


Is the alternator bad?

Maybe. But like above, get things grounded properly and try again. Maybe you dodged a bullet here, but maybe not. Steve and Viper and some of the others know the proper way to test both a VR and an Alternator, but for now you can try it momentarily to see what you get.


I have three wires going to the alternator, orange, white and black. The orange wire goes to the post with the white plastic washer, white wire goes to post with black plastic washer, and black wire goes to post with red plastic washer.

Orange is "Field" and goes straight to the VR.
White (with a black stripe) is "Stator" and runs the stock electric choke on the carburetor.
Black (probably with a yellow stripe) is the main charge wire and goes into the cab, through the ammeter and then back out to the battery to keep it charged. This is your main power feed to and from the battery.


There is not ground, should there be? It's a 76. I do think it's odd that when I removed the vr it stops drawing.

Yes. The alternator grounds to the engine through it's case, but there is supposed to be a small ground wire connected directly between the case of the alternator and the body of the voltage-regulator. Is there one there?
If you're using the original rubber-encased connector on the back of the alternator, it's connected through one of the attaching rings.
Got pics of this thing?


Okay, went one step farther and removed the three wires from the back of the alternator. When I removed the orange one, the tester light shows zero draw, removing the white and black didn't make any difference, only the orange. Is this because the alternator is bad, or is that the link to the battery through the vr?

Not sure, but I'd say it's the regulator. Someone else might now for sure.


I do have a fiberglass tub, do I need to ground the VR?

Definitely! Not doing so will often fry the new regulator unfortunately. You're not supposed to even connect it to the harness until it's mounted (grounded) to the steel body. In the case of a fiberglass body, you need to ground it with a separate wire to the case.
It may be as simple as running a wire from there to the alternator to simply make sure they're connected together.
But make sure too, that the case of the alternator is clean and the bolt holes mounting it are clean, and the surfaces on the engine that it mounts to are clean and free of paint.
If this is not easy to do (new paint and rusty holes or whatever) run a separate ground wire from the alternator case to the engine where it can get a good connection and make sure it's well bonded to the rest of the grounding system and back to the battery.
With fiberglass, it all becomes more important than ever that the builder (you) makes sure that all paths lead to ground again. The old steel body connected a lot of things together on a common network. The fiberglass swap interrupted that so you need to be uber-diligent in making sure that you create a whole slew of new paths that lead ultimately back to the battery's negative side.

I'm sure I missed things too, so listen to what others have to say about it. Especially those that have glass tubs of their own they had to deal with.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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triracer67

triracer67

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black wire

I hooked all the wires to the alternator in the same sequence, all research tells me it's correct. I have a black wire that has an orange "Fusable link" on it, it joins with yellow wire from vr, and hooks into the cannon plug that goes to the alternator and into the wire bundle into the cab. This wire is hooked to the battery side of the solenoid. When I unhook it, I get zero draw. I link this wire to the positive battery terminal through the tester and get a light, is this a ground wire? When I link it to the negative through the tester I get no light. I do have a picture, but can't post.
 

DirtDonk

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If you don't use one of the free image hosting sites, you can e-mail it to one of us and we can post it up directly.
Left click on a name with current contributor status listed.

Paul
 
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