Big Inch EFI Guru's - Tech Please!

[EricLar80]

I've been thinking about it too, and how many different programs have you tried? Is it possible that you have a defective ECU? I think you said that it ran fine before though, is that correct?
You running an automatic or manual trans? Auto or manual ECU? Jumper position in Ryan's harness?

Pretty much just one, except I have tried different things, such as different spark advances and a C&L MAF. I can get codes out of it, and it seems to output data the right data, so I think the ECU should be fine. I have it hooked up for manual on the A9L.

Is that hole in the front left corner of the lower intake where you have the ACT sensor?

Yes.

Did you verify number 1 TDC was actually where the timing mark and the pointer meet up? So many combos,..

Not to the nth degree, but when putting the timing chain on, everything lined up properly.

Hmm, did you remember to use a 28 oz imbalance flywheel/flexplate to match the 28 oz stock damper?

The rotating assembly was balanced together. When in an upper RPM, I don't have any vibration. I think any shaking is due to the engine generally not running well.

Thanks for the help.

Eric

 

[lars]

I reused most of the sensors; the only ones I did not are the TPS and the IAC. I have verified that the TPS is linear and doesn't have any noise (via the datalogging).



This may be tricky, as you know of the dizzy issues with 351w - any tips for a TFI based dizzy for a 351w besides aftermarket?

No Codes, except for the 11.

Thanks,

Eric

My experience with stock 351W-based EEC-IV is pretty limited, but my understanding is that they are all remote TFI. But, with the correct TFI module, it works fine with the A9xx Mustang computers. If the wiring (remote TFI module) issue can be worked out, I might be able to come up with something.

I posed the question because yours would not be the first case of an aftermarket TFI distributor that was faulty out of the box, that I've heard of.

 

[EricLar80]

My hunch would be a bad/incorrect tune with the moates. You've added an extra 30% in displacement in addition to whatever other upgrades you may have also done. If the moates is anything like the tweecer, it's sometimes a steep learning curve to get a correct base tune

I agree that it could just be a tune thing, I would just expect it to be a little closer with a stock MAF setup; gonna attempt to modify the MAF curve to see if that helps.

I'd also recheck your valve adjustments, it's easy to lose track whether you're in tdc during the compression stroke vs exhaust stroke.

Will do.

Do you have a list of mods? Are heads, MAF, Injectors, TB etc. all bigger?

- The heads are relatively big (2.02/160 valves; 200cc intake runners)
- MAF and MAF curve is stock size for now until I figure out whats going on, but it seemed to work equally well with stock or aftermarket MAF
- Injectors are 30lbs; ECU programmed accordingly (quadruple checked that one)
- TB is bigger (75mm)

Smog pump, egr, delete?

All deleted to the extent possible in Ryan's harness and also disabled in the tune.

Thanks, keep 'em coming.

Eric

 

[ak68]

custom tune

Why don't you see if a professional tuner might do a tune for you as a starting point. I had Paul at Poweraddersolutions do one for me. You could also put a datalog file up on the eectuners site and see what they would say. Ther are some pretty sharp folks on that site.

 

[EricLar80]

My experience with stock 351W-based EEC-IV is pretty limited, but my understanding is that they are all remote TFI. But, with the correct TFI module, it works fine with the A9xx Mustang computers. If the wiring (remote TFI module) issue can be worked out, I might be able to come up with something.

I posed the question because yours would not be the first case of an aftermarket TFI distributor that was faulty out of the box, that I've heard of.

It would be my luck, too. It is on my list of things to make sure the hall ring is oriented the way I think it would be (missing, or different tab online with the rotor.

Here is the rest of my list, in no particular order:
- Check all cylinders for spark
- Injector spray pattern
- Leak down test (picked up set today)
- Advance to 25 degrees with spout pulled
- MAF transfer +/- 5 & 10%
- Pin 3 on TFI hot on start only
- Adjust valves the way I should have in the first place
- Distributor hall sensor orientation
- Verify cylinder 3 comes after 1 on the crank & valves
- Verify codes again
- Stock dizzy

Eric

 

[EricLar80]

It would be my luck, too. It is on my list of things to make sure the hall ring is oriented the way I think it would be (missing, or different tab online with the rotor.

Here is the rest of my list, in no particular order:
- Check all cylinders for spark
- Injector spray pattern
- Leak down test (picked up set today)
- Advance to 25 degrees with spout pulled
- MAF transfer +/- 5 & 10%
- Pin 3 on TFI hot on start only
- Adjust valves the way I should have in the first place
- Distributor hall sensor orientation
- Verify cylinder 3 comes after 1 on the crank & valves
- Verify codes again
- Stock dizzy

Eric

I found something interesting - when looking at the spark on all cylinders, I did get spark on them all, but it looks like I have intermittent spark. You would expect them all to always flash, but even at like 1500 RPM it would has a period of time that there was no flash, even if I put it on the coil wire (which would normally constantly flash at that speed since all 8 go thru it).

Ok, so am I looking at a bad PIP, TFI, or coil? I have put a spare coil I had on, and not improvement, so I am considering either the PIP or TFI.

I did adjust the MAF up (more air/volt) and that helped stabilize it some, but still was missing some.

The other things I checked, without issue are:
- Pin 3 is hot on start only
- Distributor hall can only go on one way & rotor is kinda pointing towards narrow finger
- cam and crank are on the same firing order (compression checked)

Gonna look online about the dizzy and see what I can find. Then go buy the potentially offending part.

Thanks,

Eric

 

[Broncobowsher]

Just one of those stupid things to check, the PIP wheel on the distributor. It has 8 vanes right? Someone didn't build one with junkyard parts with a 6 vane armature, right? I have heard of it before.

 

[EricLar80]

Holy $hit. Replaced the TFI, and its idling smooth as silk. A little bit of a stumble during start, but nothing that can't be fixed by a tune!

Thanks everyone for their help! Now I got to call MSD up and "give them a piece of my mind". Brand new, never installed MSD distributor has a bad TFI module, what a pain in the ass.

It has been almost 2 weeks since I first started the motor and this is the first time I actually had a smile.

Thanks again, everyone!!!

Eric

 

[EricLar80]

My experience with stock 351W-based EEC-IV is pretty limited, but my understanding is that they are all remote TFI. But, with the correct TFI module, it works fine with the A9xx Mustang computers. If the wiring (remote TFI module) issue can be worked out, I might be able to come up with something.

I posed the question because yours would not be the first case of an aftermarket TFI distributor that was faulty out of the box, that I've heard of.

Definitely gonna look into a remote mount dizzy. I'll see what MSD is willing to do, but I can only imagine their response: "non-stock application, go pound sand."

Eric

 

[Bronchole]

I was considering a remote mount TFI distributer for mine, but ended up just going with the same distributer that you went with.

 

[lars]

Definitely gonna look into a remote mount dizzy. I'll see what MSD is willing to do, but I can only imagine their response: "non-stock application, go pound sand."

Eric

Why I like stock Ford parts when possible. They are just hard to beat. Now it's time to look into some stock Ford EDIS parts

 

[DirtDonk]

As soon as I saw EDIS, I didn't even have to look at the name. I just knew it was Lars posting. ;D

Aren't you done with that experiment yet Lars? You been spending too much time on other projects methinks!
Are you going to use an Explorer ECU and harness, and then just TWEEC it?

Paul

 

[lars]

As soon as I saw EDIS, I didn't even have to look at the name. I just knew it was Lars posting. ;D

Aren't you done with that experiment yet Lars? You been spending too much time on other projects methinks!
Are you going to use an Explorer ECU and harness, and then just TWEEC it?

Paul

My EDIS system (built with all Ford parts except the Tweecer) has been as reliable as a rubber door stop. Other stuff, mostly the 40+ year old body, not so much. Not that I'm complaining I'm using an EEC-IV (Mustang A9L) ECU.

It does sound appealing to use an Explorer ECU if it meant the possibility of eliminating the Tweecer, but I'm not interested in having the complete Explorer electronics, including PATS, etc, not to mention I don't have a 4R70W transmission that presumably the Explorer ECU would be looking for.

The other project? Well, that's a topic for a chat thread

Eric, the offer stands, if you want to go down the EDIS path eventually.

 

[EricLar80]

Eric, the offer stands, if you want to go down the EDIS path eventually.

Thanks - I'll definitely get there sooner rather than later. I have a few short term goals, but then I'll be ready to go. I really wanted to get to BBBB, but mainly work got in the way (Hawaii didn't help either), but now I am aiming for a few Pismo trips. In the meantime I plan to wrap up the 393, try to fine tune the MAF/injector curves and work on the EDIS harness. I would prefer to have all the parts ready and just drop it in, so I need to hit up the yards one morning.

Eric