• Welcome to ClassicBroncos! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all the site features, please take a moment to register. It's fast, simple and absolutely free. So please join our community today!
    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

Bronco Won't Start

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
I'm new to the Bronco game and forum. Purchased a 71 with a 302 from a well known restoration shop in IL. Literally had the bronco for 3 days and drove it twice before it died at a stop light. Now it won't start. So much for those "test miles" the shop said they were putting on to make sure all the kinks are worked out. Bronco started and ran fine the first drive with the wife.

Drove it 15 miles to work today and it ran just fine. On my drive home it died once as I was approaching a stop light. It started on the first crank and drove another 5 or so miles. I stoped and a red light and it died. However, this time it wouldn't start back up. I noticed the oil pressure gauge says 0. I know for a fact that it wasn't at 0 when I drove to work. I didn't see any oil spots on my driveway or where I parked it at work. I checked the oil and it it has plenty (although there seems to be a small leak somewhere, as there is oil on the bottom of the oil pan, transferase and parts of the frame. I checked the carb and its getting fuel, but doesn't seem to have spark. I placed a screw driver in the center distributer wire and turned the ignition. No spark. At a loss as to why theres no oil pressure and no spark.

Any tips, feedback, advice is appreciated.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,346
Hey Kristachio, welcome to classicbroncos! Unfortunately too, welcome to classic vehicles in general that always seem to have these "issues" especially when just purchased!

But you've given some great clues so far. The zero oil pressure AND no spark could be that the roll pin has sheared off of the distributor shaft and is letting the drive gear spin. Since the distributor shaft also turns the oil pump shaft, it's a high possibility this is your issue.
Hopefully you got it back home without too much drama? And luckily it sounds like the wife was not with you on this trip!

Do you know how to work on basic engine stuff, or is all this new to you? Sounds like you have some experience, but wondering how deep it goes. If you need a rundown on how to remove and check the distributor, let us know and we can give you the full book version.

For general info, on these engines in particular, loosing oil does not usually end up lowering your pressure. When I bought my '71 it was more than 4qts low and still showing 70lbs on the gauge! Oddly when I topped it off (the PO (previous owner) just happened to have a case of oil handy) the pressure went down to 50psi. But the point was that just being low does not mean lower pressure automatically.

There are always other reasons for loss of spark, but for now we'll hope for a quick find on the problem with the distributor gear and go from there. Very fixable...

Good luck.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,346
Also, let us know what else has been done (that you know of) to your '71. Does it have the stock wiring for example? Original points type distributor, or upgraded to electronic? Stuff like that.

If you can, take some pictures of it in general and some detailed ones under the hood for us to check out. We love pics of new-to-us Broncos, but the under hood and under chassis stuff does often help us diagnose problems before they bite the owner.

You can host images on another site and link them here, or you can use the "Gallery" and "Garage" features in your User CP above. Or the best way is to support the site with a 12 bucks a year "contributor" status. That way you can also post up images to your discussion directly. But any of those are legit and can get pics up for us to see.

paul
 
OP
OP
K

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
Hi Paul,

Thank for the detailed reply, It’s greatly appreciated! I have basic knowledge of working on engines and fairly handy with most things, but nothing super in depth in this department. Luckily I have this forum and a brother in-law who’s very knowledgeable. That being said, I wish I would provide more detail on everything that was done to the engine before I purchased it. The restoration shop said it was rebuilt at some point by the previous owner but they have no idea as to what that scope of work was. I also asked multiple times of a full run down of what they (shop I purchased from) did to the truck but they went Mia on me. That’s just another check Mark on the list of things they have against them. Super disappointing considering the price i paid and how well known they are in this industry. Or so I thought. Luckily I have AAA thanks to my wife’s grandparents my card says I’m an 83 year member with tons of tow miles available. I have a feeling I’m gonna need them! Lol. Also, luckily she wasn’t with me. She’s now over it and wanting to sell it because of this.( never going to happen) So hopefully it’s a cheap and easy fix. haha. Ok, I’m officially done with my rant.

I just tested the coil and it has 10 volts. The battery is 12 which I was told is a little low but would make sense since I’ve tried to turn it over a few times. Is that proper volts for the coil? Shouldn’t it be higher or no?

The wires, coil, distributor cap look pretty new. I’ll see if I can figure out how to post photos. I’ll be more than happy to donate the $12 bucks to keep this forum going. I also do digital marketing. I would love to help this site out in anyway possible. Stay tuned for photos!

Paul, thanks again!

-Kris
 
OP
OP
K

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
Here are some photos of the engine bay, battery, distributor, coil. I also included a photo of the power steering. Is it normal to have that much fluid round it?
 

Attachments

  • 065EBB62-328A-4C17-8FD4-CD76F3759FAF.jpg
    065EBB62-328A-4C17-8FD4-CD76F3759FAF.jpg
    106.6 KB · Views: 68
  • 538D3314-D680-409B-8B0C-C82048E543CA.jpg
    538D3314-D680-409B-8B0C-C82048E543CA.jpg
    122.1 KB · Views: 74
  • 27A0D4B9-DAFB-4EA2-824B-159758EDAE8D.jpg
    27A0D4B9-DAFB-4EA2-824B-159758EDAE8D.jpg
    81.9 KB · Views: 59
  • 9E76666A-E0F5-4DCD-B088-8D1D154D0AE5.jpg
    9E76666A-E0F5-4DCD-B088-8D1D154D0AE5.jpg
    104.2 KB · Views: 62
  • AD686504-B93C-4D8D-852E-02DC4D5D15EA.jpg
    AD686504-B93C-4D8D-852E-02DC4D5D15EA.jpg
    117.1 KB · Views: 67
  • 01822B21-5AF0-42B7-BE56-0AE527EB0F87.jpg
    01822B21-5AF0-42B7-BE56-0AE527EB0F87.jpg
    90 KB · Views: 63
  • 0EFE634D-5CC3-4B41-ABD9-84DE0976DE56.jpg
    0EFE634D-5CC3-4B41-ABD9-84DE0976DE56.jpg
    94 KB · Views: 63

B RON CO

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
2,412
Loc.
Statesville, NC
Hi, since you have 10 volts going to the coil you have to figure out what distributor and ignition system you have. Pictures will help. Don't just start throwing parts at it. Good luck
 

EPB72

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
801
Loc.
Pleasant Hill, CA
So did you pull the Dist cap and crank it over to see if the dist/rotor is turning.....?

Not knowing your setup ignition wise that 10 volts could be OK ...

To check for trigger at coil ,,on the negative side .if you have a test light connect the clamp end to battery positive and the other end probe the coil neg post with everything connected have someone crank it over and the light should flash ....also is that 10 volts with just the key turned on or while your cranking it over??

and at some point you may need to get your battery on a charger,,

good luck,,the restoration shop not very stand up..%)%)
 

EPB72

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
801
Loc.
Pleasant Hill, CA
Here are some photos of the engine bay, battery, distributor, coil. I also included a photo of the power steering. Is it normal to have that much fluid round it?

Looks like aftermarket electonic ignition conversion in a stock distributor ,,crane, jacobs,???? is there an remote module tied in with the dist wires or do they just go to the coil 3 wires pos,neg and ground????..

coil looks newish as well , may or maynot be compatible with whats there...

pull dist cap and take more pics,,
 
OP
OP
K

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
I took the distributor cap off and the disk turned. It appears to be electronic.
 

Attachments

  • FF9C5B1B-C71E-4086-8DB5-CB212D0C2305.jpg
    FF9C5B1B-C71E-4086-8DB5-CB212D0C2305.jpg
    96.8 KB · Views: 61
  • 0ADA7842-F93E-4B67-85B2-A2C2CA51E073.jpg
    0ADA7842-F93E-4B67-85B2-A2C2CA51E073.jpg
    97.3 KB · Views: 50
  • C6C45521-3584-4C08-9063-715612B5CCBF.jpg
    C6C45521-3584-4C08-9063-715612B5CCBF.jpg
    60.6 KB · Views: 49
OP
OP
K

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
Thank you for the link.

New development, after I took the distributor off to snap the pic of the inside, I placed the cap back on, let it sit for an hour and cranked it over. It started first turn. Idled for 4-5 mins no prob then died. Wont start now. The oil pressure was reading 40 so I’m guessing maybe coil, ignition???
 

jagbucket

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
251
what happened when you checked for spark/signal at the coil ? if you have spark at the coil follow the path all the way to the spark plug. they make a cheap spark inline tester that you can see the spark and color you can get most anywhere.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,346
I just tested the coil and it has 10 volts. The battery is 12 which I was told is a little low but would make sense since I’ve tried to turn it over a few times.

That 10v might be just fine, but we need to know a few things still I guess.
Since this is mostly stock type wiring, you probably have a Red w/green wire at the positive side of the coil? If so, that is a resistor wire that reduces voltage under load. While not under load it should read 12v same as the battery, so if that is no load (will explain the "load" thing in a bit) then there is a voltage drop that is unacceptably high. You should not see a 2v drop in any system hopefully.

By "load" I mean when the trigger in the distributor is closing the circuit and creating flow through the coil to ground. In that case it's not uncommon to see as low as 7-8volts instead. A reading of 9 or 10 volts would be good though.
So we just need to know the circumstances. For now though, I think we can just live with it until we've looked at the other possible problems that would keep it from running.

Yes, the 12v at the battery is a tad low (fully charged is 12.6v) but nothing to worry about. You're right about the reading being consistent with having cranked the engine a few times.

The wires, coil, distributor cap look pretty new. I’ll see if I can figure out how to post photos. I’ll be more than happy to donate the $12 bucks to keep this forum going. I also do digital marketing. I would love to help this site out in anyway possible. Stay tuned for photos!

Great pics, thanks Kris! Thanks for becoming a contributor so quickly. Does help, but for me it's because we get to see more pics!
I have some other (little) observations too. Will touch on them next.

paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,346
Here are some photos of the engine bay, battery, distributor, coil.

Love to see pics of new Broncos!
Definitely do what some have said and make sure that your distributor is doing when you crank the starter with the distributor cap off like in the pic.

I also included a photo of the power steering. Is it normal to have that much fluid round it?

It's common and "normal" but it's not right. In a perfect world there would be zero liquid around any fittings. But in the real world, I don't see much in your pictures. At least not more than normal. Hard to say without knowing the last time it was cleaned.
Maybe give it a quick wipe-down and drive it around (when you can) to see how long it takes to leak out again.

You have a non-stock aftermarket replacement steering gearbox and a Saginaw "canned ham" power steering pump. The good news is that both are likely better than the original Bronco stuff.
Since a '71 never had power steering (that started in '73) it was all added later. Notice how the box interferes with the radiator core support panel. In late '72 Ford added a bump-out pocket to fit the longer power steering boxes, but yours does not have it. Hence the little bit of beating the panel was given to fit the new box.

How does yours feel? Steer well and has good road feel as far as you can tell (with limited seat time so far) compared to other older trucks you may have driven? If you have not spent any time behind the wheel of older vehicles you might not know the difference, but when compared to a modern car they don't really feel all that great.
But Broncos can be made to have good road feel, so more on that down the road.
For now, we need to get you running again.

Paul
 

gr8scott

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
1,823
Welcome Kristachio, and thanks for the pics! That coil you have requires a resistance wire, but it looks to me like there's only one wire going to coil+ ?
There should be two wires at coil+, red from distributor and resistance wire from ignition switch. Next time you get it to start let it idle till it dies. Then reach
over and feel your coil. Is it almost too hot to touch? Might be 10 volts is too much and the coil is getting hot and failing.
 

Attachments

  • FD-471Xa.jpg
    FD-471Xa.jpg
    111 KB · Views: 20
  • FD-471Xc.jpg
    FD-471Xc.jpg
    115.7 KB · Views: 14
  • FD-471Xb.jpg
    FD-471Xb.jpg
    99.8 KB · Views: 21
  • Eliminator.jpg
    Eliminator.jpg
    60.8 KB · Views: 25

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,346
Some more general observations:

1. I would mount the coil in a vertical position. Ford put our originals in the position you have yours now, but most aftermarket companies do not recommend this due to possible overheating of any wire windings that might become exposed to air as the cooling oil is not completely filling the canister.
Might be part of your problem, might not be.
The percentage of failures caused by this position is likely not that high, but it's a thing and worth mentioning. And worth changing too, in my mind.

2. Add a body ground. Your main ground cable from the negative side of the battery is good sized, and runs down to the engine. But notice that metal "tab" that's under a screw on the side of the wheel well sitting there and not doing anything? That's your original body ground from Ford. When the original ground cable failed or was replaced for whatever reason, that's all that was left.
You don't have to buy a new cable with extra wire. You can create your own with some 10ga wire with ring terminals. One end to the battery negative, the other end to the body, either at that same screw, or another handy location perhaps under the voltage regulator (there behind the battery) or starter relay/solenoid.

3. Your battery has been "corrected" for what some of us feel was not one of Ford's better ideas. Originally the positive cable was there near the body. This is no problem if everything is perfect and you never have to mess with it. But can be trouble otherwise. Someone wisely converted to a reversed terminal battery that puts the negative terminal near the body. It's a good thing generally.

4. Your '71 would also not have had power assisted brakes, so that's a conversion as well. Do you have disc front brakes, or still drums? Disc front brakes from the factory did not appear until '76 so if you have discs, they were swapped in.

5. The alternator spacer there on the top bolt to the cylinder head currently has it's open slot facing upward. Nothing wrong with that, but over time it allows more moisture and debris collect inside. If you ever have that top bolt loose, spin the spacer around so that the open slot is facing down.

6. The high-pressure hose from the pump to the steering box is a custom piece. Not something that can be replaced by an off-the-shelf piece. But not a huge deal, as there are multiple ways to deal with replacement hoses.

7. You have a redundant fuel filter and likely it's not a good thing overall. Your stock type carburetor has a screw-in filter right there in the front of the float bowl with the fuel line connecting to it. The clear plastic filter is an add-on and can be removed if you can make a proper fuel line to go directly from the fuel pump to the carburetor mounted filter/inlet.
The add-on filter is likely even better than the original, but two filters can sometimes cause trouble. There is an additional filter inside the tank if it's still there. They can deteriorate over time (and 50 years definitely qualifies!), but generally last a long time.

That's enough to keep track of for now!

Paul
 
OP
OP
K

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
Welcome Kristachio, and thanks for the pics! That coil you have requires a resistance wire, but it looks to me like there's only one wire going to coil+ ?
There should be two wires at coil+, red from distributor and resistance wire from ignition switch. Next time you get it to start let it idle till it dies. Then reach
over and feel your coil. Is it almost too hot to touch? Might be 10 volts is too much and the coil is getting hot and failing.

Hi gr8scott, thanks for the feedback. The coil has the two wires attached to the positive post as you mention above. Do you recommend a new coil? I purchase one front the local parts store and they Recommend the MSD blaster coil 2. Would this work with my application?
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    96.5 KB · Views: 14
  • D1FBA1F3-8DEE-4B9E-88D7-5008618E7AE8.jpg
    D1FBA1F3-8DEE-4B9E-88D7-5008618E7AE8.jpg
    99.9 KB · Views: 13
OP
OP
K

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
Some more general observations:

1. I would mount the coil in a vertical position. Ford put our originals in the position you have yours now, but most aftermarket companies do not recommend this due to possible overheating of any wire windings that might become exposed to air as the cooling oil is not completely filling the canister.
Might be part of your problem, might not be.
The percentage of failures caused by this position is likely not that high, but it's a thing and worth mentioning. And worth changing too, in my mind.

2. Add a body ground. Your main ground cable from the negative side of the battery is good sized, and runs down to the engine. But notice that metal "tab" that's under a screw on the side of the wheel well sitting there and not doing anything? That's your original body ground from Ford. When the original ground cable failed or was replaced for whatever reason, that's all that was left.
You don't have to buy a new cable with extra wire. You can create your own with some 10ga wire with ring terminals. One end to the battery negative, the other end to the body, either at that same screw, or another handy location perhaps under the voltage regulator (there behind the battery) or starter relay/solenoid.

3. Your battery has been "corrected" for what some of us feel was not one of Ford's better ideas. Originally the positive cable was there near the body. This is no problem if everything is perfect and you never have to mess with it. But can be trouble otherwise. Someone wisely converted to a reversed terminal battery that puts the negative terminal near the body. It's a good thing generally.

4. Your '71 would also not have had power assisted brakes, so that's a conversion as well. Do you have disc front brakes, or still drums? Disc front brakes from the factory did not appear until '76 so if you have discs, they were swapped in.

5. The alternator spacer there on the top bolt to the cylinder head currently has it's open slot facing upward. Nothing wrong with that, but over time it allows more moisture and debris collect inside. If you ever have that top bolt loose, spin the spacer around so that the open slot is facing down.

6. The high-pressure hose from the pump to the steering box is a custom piece. Not something that can be replaced by an off-the-shelf piece. But not a huge deal, as there are multiple ways to deal with replacement hoses.

7. You have a redundant fuel filter and likely it's not a good thing overall. Your stock type carburetor has a screw-in filter right there in the front of the float bowl with the fuel line connecting to it. The clear plastic filter is an add-on and can be removed if you can make a proper fuel line to go directly from the fuel pump to the carburetor mounted filter/inlet.
The add-on filter is likely even better than the original, but two filters can sometimes cause trouble. There is an additional filter inside the tank if it's still there. They can deteriorate over time (and 50 years definitely qualifies!), but generally last a long time.

That's enough to keep track of for now!

Paul



1. Thanks for the tip. I will look into remounting the coil. While on that subject. Would you recommend the MSD BLASTER 2 coil the parts store suggested I buy? I included a photo in my reply to Gr8tscott.

2. Good catch on the ground wire. I see exactly what your talking about and put one on. While inspecting this. I did notice the cable just hanging out and not connected to anything. Any idea what this is or if it should be connected to anything? (Photo below)

3. Good to know.

4. It has disk brakes in the front and drums in the back. That’s one item I’m looking to upgrade down the road.

5. Good catch. I’ll correct that.

7. Any idea why the shop would keep this on? And not do exactly what you mentioned above?


I appreciate all the tips from the community. I’m thinking maybe since I don’t have spark with the coil, starting there with a new one. Will the msd one work that I purchased? Then move to replacing the electronic ignition module piece inside the the distributor???

I don’t know, what do you think?
 
OP
OP
K

Kristachio

Newbie
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
17
That 10v might be just fine, but we need to know a few things still I guess.
Since this is mostly stock type wiring, you probably have a Red w/green wire at the positive side of the coil? If so, that is a resistor wire that reduces voltage under load. While not under load it should read 12v same as the battery, so if that is no load (will explain the "load" thing in a bit) then there is a voltage drop that is unacceptably high. You should not see a 2v drop in any system hopefully.

By "load" I mean when the trigger in the distributor is closing the circuit and creating flow through the coil to ground. In that case it's not uncommon to see as low as 7-8volts instead. A reading of 9 or 10 volts would be good though.
So we just need to know the circumstances. For now though, I think we can just live with it until we've looked at the other possible problems that would keep it from running.

Yes, the 12v at the battery is a tad low (fully charged is 12.6v) but nothing to worry about. You're right about the reading being consistent with having cranked the engine a few times.



Great pics, thanks Kris! Thanks for becoming a contributor so quickly. Does help, but for me it's because we get to see more pics!
I have some other (little) observations too. Will touch on them next.

paul


It has a green wire on one post. Is this the negative? Then a red wire tied to the other post. The red wire also has another red wire attached that leads to the ignition. There’s also a brown wire(ground I assume) leading under the coil and mounted on the bracket.
 

Attachments

  • E28B35A7-CF4E-4E64-A790-BA9BF4661C53.jpg
    E28B35A7-CF4E-4E64-A790-BA9BF4661C53.jpg
    88.5 KB · Views: 21
Top