build drivetrain suggestions: 302-V8 vs 300-I6 ???

[tdkask]

As mentioned in another thread, I am anxious to get an EB soon, but my best prospect right now has a 170/3spd.

I have considered getting this and going with a engine upgrade down the road. What is the general concensus on a 300-I6 swap? Aside from obvious issues with mounts/radiator, etc, what is a good bol-together combo for 300/auto/transfercase? An OD trans would even be better, but I am interested what will mate up without rare or aftermarket adapters, etc. What about stock drivetrain from any 300/auto 4WD truck or Bronco later? Any suggestions? Just trying to consider my options and do my homework. I think I might enjoy the torque of a 300 over the HP you can build in a 302. Thanks.

tdkask

 

[broncnaz]

The 300 swap has been done a few times takes quite a few mods some to the front crossmember as well and its a tall engine so body lift and possibly a aftermarket hood may be needed.
As for tranny well anything that bolts to a 302/351W will bolt to a 300 they all use the same bellhousing. As for using late model tranny and t case well your kind of out of luck there are there are really no late model t cases that will fit between a broncos frame rails so you either adapt the D20 or use a NP205.
The only thing I'm not sure on is exactly how well the 300 fits in a bronco considering its a long engine if its pushed way back to the firewall then your tranny /tcase lenght might make the rear driveshaft pretty short which is not real good if you intend on lifting it.

Overall there's realy little differance in the torque of a 300 vs the torque of a 302. other than where its located in the RPM range. The 300 is pretty tops out its torque in the 1600-2000 RPM range. a stock 302 usually see's torque top out at around 2200-2600. Of course you build up either engine and torque numbers go up. Buty overall I'd give the edge to the 302 those 2 extra pistons help a bunch.

Overall for the costs and hassles involved with swapping in a 300 I think I would just go with a 302 or if your after torque go 351W.

 

[Revelation]

For the 300.
It is a must to move the Engine/Trans back 3 inches, and lower it I would say a min. of 2 inches. Mine is 3 inches back and 3 inches lower. I wish I would have went back another 2 inches, and made mods to the firewall, just for clearance reasons with the fan/radiator. i have no issues with the rear driveshaft, with 3 ½" lift I am running a stock rear shaft, the front had to be extended.
As stated the 300 swap is not for everyone, I am loving mine, spend all day just above idle while wheeling. Just last weekend was out with a bunch for Broncomania, for the day of wheeling I used 1/4 of a tank from my 23 gal. while the v-8 guys used a half.

As I said, the 300 swap is not for everyone, as it is intensive, and requires many other mods, That being said, I will never own another Bronco without a 300.

 

[tdkask]

Is there enough room to shift a radiator and electric fan to the front of the bulkhead, requiring less push to the rear? For a DD that will only see occasional wheeling which makes more sense? There is already at least 2 inch of body lift and the hood already has a scoop, so I think think that'd be okay. Thanks for the info... please keep it coming. Too bad I can't find a detailed writeup on this one.

Revelation, the pics don't show a lot of stock bronco there, not encouraging to the hopes it won't be too entailed.

 

[chadomatic]

you mentioned using an aod trans. Ford used the e4od behind the 300 because the torque was too great for the aod.

 

[Revelation]

On mine there is not alot that is Bronco, the entire front inner clip is custom stainless, as is the firewall, cowl and floors, but all are very close to stock specs. My radiator is only about 1 inch forward from stock. with a stock core support you can move the radiator forward with a little modification, you will lose the factory hood latches and will have to go with a hood pin kit. I had a flex fan, but a water crossing killed my radiator, so I am now running an electric.
Shoot ma a PM with your email and I will send you the article that was in Bronco Driver 19 about a 300 install in a stock Bronco.
Did I mention how much I like the 300 in an EB?

 

[tdkask]

Thanks. I like the idea of it. No real need to regear for 33s and likely better mileage and tons of room to reach everything. Looks cool too.

tdkask at cox dot net

Thanks again.

 

[Revelation]

I am running 3:50 gears and 35's, getting about 15-16, will be a little better when I get the FI on it.

 

[73azbronco]

how about a 240 vs 300? 240 fits right into a 170 space.

 

[cgbexec]

If you have the ability, tools and skills for this kind of fabrication, then by all means the 300 is a great powerplant. If you only have the abilty to bolt together a set up or if you are paying to have it done, then going 302/351 is the only way to go.

 

[broncnaz]

240/300 basically use the same engine block so size is the same. May as well do the 300 more CI more torque and power hands down.. I think your thinking of the 250 which does fit a little better as its has a smaller block than the 240/300
Wouldnt count on the 300 getting any better mileag than a 302 especailly at hiway speeds. Many of us run 33in tires and 3.50 gears with 302's will good results. I can pull 16-17 with mine.
A lot of people have had 300's and 302's in pickups and most have gotten better mileage with the 302 but overall that 300 is more of a stump puller. If it fit better/easier into a bronco I would put ione in.

 

[tdkask]

I have most of the tools but funny enough will need to borrow a friend's garage, since I have no garage right now and all my tools are packed into a large shed.

73azbronco, I assume you meant the 250? It is basically the same size as the 170. The 240 is more the size of the 300, I believe, and would put me in the same situation as a 300 swap. The 250 does seem like a feasible upgrade to the 170, but If I go I-6 I want a 300, probably, or if I go V-8 then 302 or 351. Still, though a 300 is a 75% increase in displacement, it is a lot of work... where a 250 at least fits in the engine compartment, though has same bolt pattern as 240/300 and 302/351W. Is it same motor mount positions?

Thanks, Revelation... off to read that email. I appreciate the info.

 

[patterdale]

If it is feasible I'd go with a 300 also over a 302. That engine is darn near bullet proof. I unknowingly ran one out of oil (technically a 4.9L) on a road trip. My only indication to any problem was letting off the gas on an off ramp and the engine sounded like it was exploding. I filled it with oil and it quieted right down for the next 200 miles. Had it checked out and part of the pan gasket was missing. Replaced that and ran it for years after. Had another one in a 69 F250 that ran with 3 piston skirts laying in the oil pan and low oil pressure. Never missed a beat and I didn't know the skirts were broken till I sold the engine to a guy that wanted to rebuild it.

 

[Broncobowsher]

The 300 fits with a BIG shoehorn and custom fabrication
The 302 fits with only a little modification to a few parts

 

[Revelation]

The 300 fits with a BIG shoehorn and custom fabrication

And it was worth every late night, cut, scrape, and cuss word.

BUT, knowing what I do now I would have moved it back another inch, maybe 2, and went with the ZF trans. The 435 is fine but could use a little more gear running down the road at 70.

 

[bmbm]

250 six cylinder

I started with a 170/3 speed to a 200/3 speed and now a 250/nv 3550. Easy install and lots of torque. If you compare the factory hp and torque numbers there is not a large difference between the 250 and 300.

 

[tdkask]

If I could get the 300 with maybe an E4OD and electric fans in front of the radiator, 2 or so inches body lift and moving engine mounts and maybe notching crossmember, I think it's be worth it. I'd rather not notch firewall, though a removable transmission tunnel would be nice. This is very hypothetical right now, but does play into my purchase decisions.

Just out of curiosity, what is the best application of stock 300 (or "4.9") for head, intake, exhaust, etc? What is the best year donor? What likely came with "ideal" whole drivetrain if I wanted to snag auto transmission and transfer case, too? Driveshaft changes seems like a given, but should be same side drop on transfer case to avoid axles changes. Can't be too long, of course, either.

Again I want to thank everyone for the input... I just don't have the knowledge base here, and appreciate the help.

 

[gbkeith]

An E4OD is long and wide. I'm planning on one for my 4bt swap, but I'm also moving my rear axle back and using a NP205 t case. The 205 is also a few inches longer and wider than a Dana 20, but moves the front driveshaft out enough to clear the E4OD, maybe, depending on who you ask. A built 4r70 might suit you better. I'm guessing it could handle the 300, and it would keep your drivetrain shorter and lighter.

 

[Revelation]

Mine came from an odd source, a wood chipper, a Ford Power Products 300. I would think if you could find a 90's F series or Bronco with an AOD for a donor you would be set.

 

[tdkask]

I started with a 170/3 speed to a 200/3 speed and now a 250/nv 3550. Easy install and lots of torque. If you compare the factory hp and torque numbers there is not a large difference between the 250 and 300.

Are all the mounts the same from 170 to 250? What brackets did you use? That and an AODE or E4OD may go well...

Or maybe, since the NV3550 (jeep?) went in (AA conversion?) the I could consider the AW4/NP231/D300? But the swap to passenger side drop would be no fun.

Still, a 250 and trans/TC from and F-Body might be a simple shot... lots of options.