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C-bushing help

Bronco John

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Mar 27, 2016
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223
First off I have a 3.5” lift what degree works best with that.
Second can anybody tell me anything about these orange ones in pic. Weird number on them
1f5567537a8ff6bef94112959a9734fc.jpg



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WILDHORSES

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You should run 7 degree with a 3.5" suspension. Provided there are not radius arm drop brackets. I would go for a new set of C-bushings. A pic of the side of that bushing would be helpful but they don't seem right to me. If you have 5 minuets this video might help with some explanation.


[youtube]gOytKGu45NM&t=16s[/youtube]

Jim
 
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Bronco John

Bronco John

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You should run 7 degree with a 3.5" suspension. Provided there are not radius arm drop brackets. I would go for a new set of C-bushings. A pic of the side of that bushing would be helpful but they don't seem right to me. If you have 5 minuets this video might help with some explanation.





[youtube]gOytKGu45NM&t=16s[/youtube]



Jim



It does have radius arm drop bracket


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Bronco John

Bronco John

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I’ll check out the video. Thanks. Hoping these new bushings help the all over the road. Gotta get a drop pitman arm also.


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WILDHORSES

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I’ll check out the video. Thanks. Hoping these new bushings help the all over the road. Gotta get a drop pitman arm also.


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It's all about caster. C-bushings effect caster. Get your numbers from the aliment shop and go from there. If it's all over the road 98% of the time it is a caster issue.

Jim
 

DirtDonk

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It does have trackbar arm drop bracket
Gotta get a drop pitman arm also.

Yes, you do.
If you don't, then no amount of C-bushing is going to give you the full benefit good road manners in a Bronco.
Jim's correct that caster is king with our setups, but it's not the only resident of the palace. Without your other alignments correct, you never know what you're going to get.

What else has been done to the steering and suspension? What year truck?
You said 3.5" lift, but what year and what other parts besides the trackbar drop?

If you have the chance right now (sounds like you're driving it) take it down to an alignment shop and have them give you a full printout of your settings. Maybe even let them set the toe-in if it's off.
This way you know what caster you have, and what else you might need. For all we know at this point your existing orange C-bushings will be good enough. But as was said, usually with 3.5" most of our EB's could use the full 7° and even more.
But this is why it helps to know what you're working with.

Those bushings look like one of the old companies that didn't stick around from the seventies. There was a little shop in Salinas here in CA that used to make their own bushings. He was actually one of the early adopters and, if I remember correctly, Energy Suspension bought him out of the bushing business, while he stayed in the local 4wd shop business.
If you see an old Energy catalog with the shortened EB chassis in gray showcasing all the bushings, that was his that he made up in his shop.
Can't remember for sure that he had one of those odd degree numbes (6 3/16° is certainly unusual) but it could very well be. Back then they were possibly more concerned with pinion angle than caster, so erred to the low side.
And he was big on Orange.

Give us some more info, and maybe shoot some pics of your steering linkage all the way across so we can see the working angles too.

Thanks

Paul
 

Rustytruck

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Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,872
The orange bushings were probably sold by Dick Cepek or maybe KbarS. I bought a set of them from one of those 2 company's almost 40 years ago. My stock Bronco always wanted to spit out the stock rubber parts. Back then it was a very big deal because those bushing had the big retaining lips to keep the bushings in place.
 
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Bronco John

Bronco John

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Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
223
Yes, you do.
If you don't, then no amount of C-bushing is going to give you the full benefit good road manners in a Bronco.
Jim's correct that caster is king with our setups, but it's not the only resident of the palace. Without your other alignments correct, you never know what you're going to get.

What else has been done to the steering and suspension? What year truck?
You said 3.5" lift, but what year and what other parts besides the trackbar drop?

If you have the chance right now (sounds like you're driving it) take it down to an alignment shop and have them give you a full printout of your settings. Maybe even let them set the toe-in if it's off.
This way you know what caster you have, and what else you might need. For all we know at this point your existing orange C-bushings will be good enough. But as was said, usually with 3.5" most of our EB's could use the full 7° and even more.
But this is why it helps to know what you're working with.

Those bushings look like one of the old companies that didn't stick around from the seventies. There was a little shop in Salinas here in CA that used to make their own bushings. He was actually one of the early adopters and, if I remember correctly, Energy Suspension bought him out of the bushing business, while he stayed in the local 4wd shop business.
If you see an old Energy catalog with the shortened EB chassis in gray showcasing all the bushings, that was his that he made up in his shop.
Can't remember for sure that he had one of those odd degree numbes (6 3/16° is certainly unusual) but it could very well be. Back then they were possibly more concerned with pinion angle than caster, so erred to the low side.
And he was big on Orange.

Give us some more info, and maybe shoot some pics of your steering linkage all the way across so we can see the working angles too.

Thanks

Paul[


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Bronco John

Bronco John

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Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
223
Yes, you do.
If you don't, then no amount of C-bushing is going to give you the full benefit good road manners in a Bronco.
Jim's correct that caster is king with our setups, but it's not the only resident of the palace. Without your other alignments correct, you never know what you're going to get.

What else has been done to the steering and suspension? What year truck?
You said 3.5" lift, but what year and what other parts besides the trackbar drop?

If you have the chance right now (sounds like you're driving it) take it down to an alignment shop and have them give you a full printout of your settings. Maybe even let them set the toe-in if it's off.
This way you know what caster you have, and what else you might need. For all we know at this point your existing orange C-bushings will be good enough. But as was said, usually with 3.5" most of our EB's could use the full 7° and even more.
But this is why it helps to know what you're working with.

Those bushings look like one of the old companies that didn't stick around from the seventies. There was a little shop in Salinas here in CA that used to make their own bushings. He was actually one of the early adopters and, if I remember correctly, Energy Suspension bought him out of the bushing business, while he stayed in the local 4wd shop business.
If you see an old Energy catalog with the shortened EB chassis in gray showcasing all the bushings, that was his that he made up in his shop.
Can't remember for sure that he had one of those odd degree numbes (6 3/16° is certainly unusual) but it could very well be. Back then they were possibly more concerned with pinion angle than caster, so erred to the low side.
And he was big on Orange.

Give us some more info, and maybe shoot some pics of your steering linkage all the way across so we can see the working angles too.

Thanks

Paul[


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I was having a guy bring me a 4 degree set and started second guessing myself. That’s why I started this thread. He’s now bringing me 7 degree.
As far as the bronco it’s a 74 and I just know it’s a 3.5” lift from measuring from axle to the frame or however you do that, I can’t remember exactly but learned that from this forum.
Not sure what’s been done other than the drop bracket that’s been welded to the frame. The orange bushings actually belong to the guy that’s bringing me the c-bushings. He sent me that pic seeing if I knew anything about them.
Btw I only drive it out my mile long driveway and one day I got brave and went down the highway. Only could do about 40 bc of the handling issue. It’s hard to tell how old the tires are so I’m sure all those things add up to the poor handing. I just got new tires but aren’t installed yet.


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DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
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Oh yes, definitely they all add up. Especially the old tires sometimes, but other times the tires seem to do pretty well in their old age. Each case is different there, but you will definitely be "stacking tolerances" with a Bronco until it's all dialed in.

Good luck. Can't wait to hear back what you end up with.
And by the way, while you're at it... When you get the bushings installed and have the rig back on the ground, turn the front driveshaft by hand to see if you feel any points at which it binds.
If it spins easily and evenly, you're going to be good in most situations. But if you feel it binding up in 180 degree increments, likely your pinion angle is too steep due to the C-bushing offset.
But we'll jump over that hoop when we get to it. If you need caster, C-bushings are generally the easiest way. And with "most" EB's, 7 degrees is still acceptable with the pinion angle.

Good luck.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Messages
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So who has a link to any of the full C-bushing install write-ups we've done over the years?
I mean with every step, including safe ways to jack up the truck to start?
I don't see that we've ever had an actual "tech article" on the subject, unless I just missed it?

I know we've written and talked all about the gory details of safe jacking, which parts to remove and how, and all that stuff.
Anyone keep any of the old links?

Thanks

Paul
 
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Bronco John

Bronco John

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Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
223
So who has a link to any of the full C-bushing install write-ups we've done over the years?
I mean with every step, including safe ways to jack up the truck to start?
I don't see that we've ever had an actual "tech article" on the subject, unless I just missed it?

I know we've written and talked all about the gory details of safe jacking, which parts to remove and how, and all that stuff.
Anyone keep any of the old links?

Thanks

Paul



Thanks for all your help. After I get back from Super Celebration with some new parts I’ll let you know how it does.


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