Cam change without removing engine?

[squeezer]

Starting the tear down process to change a water pump...

Might as well do a timing set while in that deep. And if I am in that deep I might as well do a cam swap...

You all know where this is going.

Is it possible to change a cam with the engine in and he grill in place?



Next and probably a tougher question. Is it worth changing a cam on a box stock 2V single exhaust (w/cat and air pump) motor.

It’s a survivor grade 77, C4, 3:50 gearing, 31” tires.

Idle to 3K power increase and a smooth idle are the goals.


Thoughts???

 

[blubuckaroo]

Why are you trying to avoid removing the grill?
I pull mine off for any work on the front of the motor. It comes off really easily and makes work much easier.
If the bolts are rusted, you may struggle with it the first time off. But use new bolts to reinstall, along with a little anti-seize.
You'll thank yourself for pulling it off.

I ran my '77 for a long time with a 302, and Autolite 2 barrel carb with an Edelbrock Performer cam. It ran really strong. The stock exhaust was a little restrictive though and he factory tubes. I had it increased to a 2.25" at the "Y" and ran a 2.25" cat, muffler, and tailpipe.

 

[sykanr0ng]

Step one: Remove radiator.

Step two: Cut hole in grill, because cam is longer than the working space between grill and engine.

 

[squeezer]

RE: Grill Removal.

This truck has a very nice paint job. The seam sealer between the fenders and grill is intact, smooth, and nicely painted.

Removing the grill is off the table at this point in time.

CB

 

[SAcobra427]

RE: Grill Removal.

This truck has a very nice paint job. The seam sealer between the fenders and grill is intact, smooth, and nicely painted.

Removing the grill is off the table at this point in time.

CB

Then so to will be your cam swap. Just did this a few weeks ago and you will not get the cam out of the block with the grill in place. It misses by around 4' or so.
Sorry for the bad news.

 

[sykanr0ng]

RE: Grill Removal.

This truck has a very nice paint job. The seam sealer between the fenders and grill is intact, smooth, and nicely painted.

Removing the grill is off the table at this point in time.

CB

Pull the engine.
I have done it without removing the grill.

 

[SHX669]

Then you probably wont want to cut one of the 'ribs " where it attaches to the vertical and pull it back out of the way and then push it back in place when you're done. - spot weld and touch up optional

 

[garberz]

RE: Grill Removal.

This truck has a very nice paint job. The seam sealer between the fenders and grill is intact, smooth, and nicely painted.

Removing the grill is off the table at this point in time.

CB

Remove the grill and both fenders together as one piece.

I wouldn’t change the cam in that motor unless you’re planning to do other mods. You need to get more air in and out to gain any kind of performance, the cam can’t do that by itself.

Mark

 

[73azbronco]

The logic of changing a cam if you are doing a water pump does not compute. Thats like saying you need new tires so you might as well install new axle bearings.

The logic of a "simple" camshaft swap, even less. Even less sense with motor in the truck. You are going to be pulling intake and valve covers. Which means carb and everything on or around it. Far fewer bolts to pull whole motor out, then do it right and easy.

Survivor? Do not touch internals unless, IMO, you go all in and pull the motor and "refurbish" everything while it's out like seals/gaskets.

Cutting notch in grill is so 1995, well before the years of Mechum madness.

 

[ObscureMachine]

Unless you are really "needing" a cam change - I wouldn't especially if you don't want to pull the grill and fenders (they come off better in one piece) - especially if you are pleased with the paint and fitment. If the look of your engine bay is not a huge deal - I would just pull the engine. But once you've done that - you might start thinking rebuilding it rather than just upgrading the cam. Or upgrading to a 351W or EFI setup. It's all a can of worms once you start pulling things. - jim

 

[squeezer]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

No cam change at this point in time.

( And the cam idea was based on wanting to replace the timing chain... That’s in deep enough to make it worth looking at.)

 

[Broncobowsher]

OK, so the cam swap is killed. Now what can be done? A timing chain. Given the original condition of the vehicle, and the age, the nylon teeth are probably in sorry shape. A fresh timing chain will bring the original cam timing back. Not running retarded will help the bottom end.

I remember that engines of this vintage had a factory retarded cam for emissions. I know the big blocks it was done with the lower cam sprocket. But I can't remember if the small blocks it was done with the timing chain or if it was in the cam grind. Just putting the a good timing chain on can do as much as doing a cam swap.

That isn't much more work than doing a water pump. Grill can stay in place. Engine doesn't have to come out.

 

[DirtDonk]

I hear the logic. Makes sense to me too, until you start taking off the intake and stuff, then decide to go with the heads too for a valve job.
All of which is still a good thing by the way, even for a survivor. My '71 needed a valve job badly by the time it had 65k miles on it. Doing so really woke it up too!

But something you said doesn't sound right. As far as I know there is zero seam sealer between the grille and fender. Never seen it myself at least. You say it's a '77, so maybe they did something different (as we know they did in many areas of '77's) but adding seam sealer to an area that does not need it, for just one remaining model year sounds fishy.
Perhaps Ford was trying to keep the bolts from rusting. Perhaps they were trying to fit a grille to a fender that were not a good match on the assembly line. Perhaps a PO has had the body apart and re-painted it, in spite of you thinking it's all original paint.
Or perhaps it's just such a good fit that you only think there is sealer in there?

Got a pic of this joint? They really were fitted very well from the factory. Much better than just bolting on new parts will let them fit these days.
I've seen that seam filled before, but not very often.

Interested to see a pic of it.

Thanks

Paul

 

[AZ73]

Remove the grill and both fenders together as one piece.

^^^^. It's not hard to do and makes the rest of your work very easy.

 

[73azbronco]

Timing gear set and timing chain are different animals, those i would do if they look worn or chain is sloppy, which it probably is.

 

[Digger556]

Pull the engine.

I tried swapping cams without pulling the grill. I even put straps on the grill and stretched it forward 3". Still missed by 2". In the end, I pulled it.

 

[ObscureMachine]

Next and probably a tougher question. Is it worth changing a cam on a box stock 2V single exhaust (w/cat and air pump) motor.

Thoughts???

To your second question - upgrading to an Edelbrock Performer Intake and Carb did a world of difference on mine. Headers also helped. It runs much, much better now and breathes well. In the near future I will go to either the Holley or Fi-Tech Fuel Injection system. I've also eliminated the hood air vents that go to the cabin (I run a soft top so plenty of fresh air) - and that helps keep the engine bay cooler and thus helps the engine run better.

 

[Rustytruck]

On my 1974 which is the worst year for cam timing I replaced my timing set and installed the new roller chain set 4 degrees advanced at the crank. made for a proper 302 engine performance increase was like taking the top off the Bronco. be tween that and 12 degrees advance at the distributor its about the best your going to get with deep dish pistons. Changing the cam on an engine with dish pistons is just a waste of money.

 

[blubuckaroo]

RE: Grill Removal.

This truck has a very nice paint job. The seam sealer between the fenders and grill is intact, smooth, and nicely painted.

Removing the grill is off the table at this point in time.

CB

Why would you use seam sealer there? This is either "the cart before the horse" or lack of forsight to eliminate one of Ford's "better ideas."
You'll need to pull the motor.

 

[Skiddy]

Why would you use seam sealer there? This is either "the cart before the horse" or lack of forsight to eliminate one of Ford's "better ideas."
You'll need to pull the motor.

more than likely it's body filler