Cheaper Than Therapy: A Build Thread

[rcmbronc]

https://www.flowtechinduction.com/

These guys do a great job on custom cams. Has one in my 408 and worked great.

 

[marjama]

Thanks @nvrstuk and @rcmbronc - would you guys be willing to share your cam specs from Ed / Flowtech? (Really interested in what yours was rcmbronc - you had a fairly similar setup to what I'm planning, plus a few cubes). Feel free to PM instead of post here if you prefer. Just curious to see how Ed sets things up vs the custom Crane that came with the 363 if you are willing to share.

Brian, I'm really trying to ignore the engineer/perfectionist in me when it comes to the ring gaps! Woody @ Fordstrokers just laughed about it and said don't even think twice about it. He's built a few more engines than me, so I should probably just stop thinking about it My only other option is to use the 363 rings in the 347 and try to nail the correct gaps on the 363. The 347 is a slightly tighter bore and does bring the gaps closer to spec, but there is still that one big guy in there. That feels like having two kids and trying to decide who gets the new clothes and who gets hand me downs. Ha!

 

[rcmbronc]

I will see what I can find.

 

[marjama]

Ha, clearly I have not updated this build thread in a long time - there is an "Old Thread" warning at the bottom. I'd love to say I've made a lot of progress on the Bronco, but life has certainly gotten in the way!

Since my last updates I was laid off from my job of almost 15 years (and the company has since gone bankrupt) - this was announced in the middle of my paternity leave in early 2023. As a result, I lost access to the machine shop I had been using to do a lot of the work on my many projects. Then I took on a new engineering job at an EV startup in Portland that is focused on the commercial marine space (www.photonmarine.com). I have been loving the gig, but startup + toddler + long commute is really cramping my project time! On a positive note, I did pick up a ton of equipment from my old company when they went out of business, so not all is lost!

I've been SUPER frustrated with Ed Curtis / Flowtech Industries (FTI) with the cam for the 363W. I had good experience with him on a previous engine build, and expected the same. The first cam he shipped me was beautifully ground - but the LSA was off by 2°. He agreed to replace it, and then went totally dark on me. Over four months later I finally filed a dispute with my CC company and suddenly the day after he started talking with me (and claiming he didn't get my emails). Ugh. Second cam showed up only slightly better, but appeared to be a regrind with a much smaller base circle. I had planned to just move forward and be done dealing with Ed, but then I realized I was left with only .040" overlap between the lifter and dogbones. So that's where the Bronco project is at today...stalled out by life and FTI. I have a thread going here and on Corral to get input on it. Hoping to hear it's fine, but not holding my breath! Probably needless to say, FTI is no longer a company I can stand behind.

 

[Yeller]

Sorry to eat about life troubles, we’ve all been there in one form or another, glad your back at it. Glad to hear the new gig is enjoyable. I’m no help on the cam issue…..

 

[nvrstuk]

"The first cam he shipped me was beautifully ground - but the LSA was off by 2°. He agreed to replace it, and then went totally dark on me. Over four months later I finally filed a dispute with my CC company and suddenly the day after he started talking with me (and claiming he didn't get my emails). Ugh. Second cam showed up only slightly better, but appeared to be a regrind with a much smaller base circle. I had planned to just move forward and be done dealing with Ed, but then I realized I was left with only .040" overlap between the lifter and dogbones. So that's where the Bronco project is at today...stalled out by life and FTI."

Claiming he didn't get your emails is outragous since the ONLY way he communicates with us "non-racing" customers is by email. He called me once about 15 yrs ago when I was dealing with him but have never communicated with him except by email since... sorry to hear that. I know we've "talked" about retirement maybe he needs to??? lol




Glad you perservered Marcus... sounds like a lot going on and not enough of it was good!

Thanks for the update from Ed. I will not promote FTI anymore.

Send me a text or pm for cam specs so I won't forget and I"ll send you a pic of the cam card. Mine will be way more that a street driven 363 would want (since I'm running almost 1/3rd more cubes). I'll say this, the cam specs on the 408's from BluePrint are really good for that size engine. Not sure you could go wrong using one of theirs. If I was spinning 7K rpm I'd need more duration but ...

Can't go wrong going with whatever Jim says. He does not cut corners and knows his stuff for sure! I've had a few good converstations with him and only saying that to mention that he's such a nice guy and willing to share his knowledge. Him and Nicole run a great business.

Good to see your post, keep at it!

 

[marjama]

Sorry to eat about life troubles, we’ve all been there in one form or another, glad your back at it. Glad to hear the new gig is enjoyable. I’m no help on the cam issue…..

Thanks Yeller! No real troubles in the end - a lot of 1st world problems for sure! In the end I got paid to be home for the first six months of my son's life, ended up with a better job, and got a shop full of tools for pennies on the dollar. So, no real complaints here...just a bit of life chaos!

"The first cam he shipped me was beautifully ground - but the LSA was off by 2°. He agreed to replace it, and then went totally dark on me. Over four months later I finally filed a dispute with my CC company and suddenly the day after he started talking with me (and claiming he didn't get my emails). Ugh. Second cam showed up only slightly better, but appeared to be a regrind with a much smaller base circle. I had planned to just move forward and be done dealing with Ed, but then I realized I was left with only .040" overlap between the lifter and dogbones. So that's where the Bronco project is at today...stalled out by life and FTI."

Claiming he didn't get your emails is outragous since the ONLY way he communicates with us "non-racing" customers is by email. He called me once about 15 yrs ago when I was dealing with him but have never communicated with him except by email since... sorry to hear that. I know we've "talked" about retirement maybe he needs to??? lol

I think Ed is technically partially retired, and probably should be put out to pasture at this stage. It's hilarious that he's on email with quick responses constantly when I first placed the order. The day he suddenly stopped talking to me was when I asked "So, how do you want to get this cam back? Can you send me a call tag?" I emailed him at least twice a month after that with zero response. What a ridiculous way to do business. I now message him on Corral since he is still on there daily. His last response was "you need link bar lifters in that raised lifter bore block - that will result in catastrophic failure!". So I need to spend another $600+ to correct his error? I don't think so. Crazy how he managed to supply one out of spec cam that had the proper base circle before. I filled out his spec sheet, so he clearly knows exactly what parts I have. The prices on his cams have jumped to ~$580 (that included $40+ in shipping), and for that amount I would expect decent service. Not getting it. Won't be surprised if I am calling my credit card company again...

My backup plan is to go to Jim at Fordstrokers. I'm guessing he can get a cam to me in a couple of weeks that will work great!

 

[nvrstuk]

Jim has sold enough strokers that you can tell him what cubes you're running, what cam performance you want and he can give you a couple of good options.
I did that with a buddy of mine that has a stroker in his Jeep. Got it in a week and he loves it.

 

[marjama]

...and if anything goes wrong you know he'll sort it out! I'm pushing Ed to just refund my money and be done with it. Not surprisingly he isn't answering, even though I can see he has been active frequently on Corral.

 

[marjama]

I ended up pulling the trigger on an order with Jim at Fordstrokers for a new cam - I'm highly confident that if anything comes back wrong that they would actually answer their emails or I could even call them on the phone to discuss! I have ordered a handful of parts from Jim and Nicole over the past couple of years and have had nothing but good service from them! Hopefully my cc company can deal with Ed at FTI, but I'd probably be ok eating the $580 I have into him just to not think about it every time I (eventually) drive this truck...

 

[nvrstuk]

Like you said, great people to deal with. I really respect their professionalism in their business.

Don't let them (Ed) win.... your call but you'll think about the cam issue everytime you tell the story of your build, when you work on your engine, etc.

At least if you perservere thru with the CC and the $580 you can tell the same stories but feel you didn't get burned/taken advantage of. I will never forget what Ford Performance put me thru but it at least feels better everytime I get asked to tell "what happened" to have the outcome I did. Not much of a victory but I knew I was right and they knew they were wrong.

Glad you're moving in a positive direction!!

 

[marjama]

Brian, I totally agree! I'm actually kind of contemplating tearing down my F100 engine just to remove the FTI cam from it...but that's probably getting a bit crazy

Lesson to all who are reading this - with Capital One, you cannot open a new dispute on a charge if you've already opened and closed a dispute. However, they did allow me to send a letter asking to re-open the case. Just spent over an hour doing that and uploading all of the supporting documentation to their site. I'm honestly shocked that I've had to take it this far. How in the world Ed has been successful in business is beyond me!

 

[fifeb]

I had my own battle with Capital One and it makes you wonder how some businesses can keep running smoothly with all these complications

 

[nvrstuk]

I'm just glad we don't own a business anymore... can't imagine suffering thru the rules & regs in our State anymore. Add in covid shutdowns (not going political) but how do you pay the rent?

What a mess!

 

[marjama]

I had my own battle with Capital One and it makes you wonder how some businesses can keep running smoothly with all these complications

We will see how Capital One does with my ask to reopen the case - I'd say the general warning would also be to never close a dispute until you know the vendor has solved it to your satisfaction! If I have to eat the cost of the cam from FTI, so be it. I'm sure I can sell it for a decent amount elsewhere, so I won't get totally hosed. I should have known better than to trust him, but I also assumed that I'd be able to open a new case if it didn't work out.

On a positive note, I already have the specs for the new cam from Jim (Woody) at Fordstroker's, and it's off to grinding. Comparing what Jim offered vs FTI is difficult because I have no way to tell what the lobe profile differences are, but it's fair to say that Jim is a little more conservative than Ed - a bit less lift, a little less duration. I think Jim's approach will result in a longer living valvetrain though. More lift on the AFR heads doesn't net a lot of flow, but it certainly adds more stress to the springs. (Jim, unlike Ed, also asks if you want to give input on the specs - I told them I trusted them!) This is when I wish I had a dyno (and, unlimited funds!). Would be really interesting to compare the two cams spec'd by two different people! I basically copied my comments to Ed when I sent them to Jim.

 

[marjama]

Well, I wonder how long it'll be before I start just doing an annual update? Sheesh! This project has been stalled out for quite a while due to simply taking on way too many projects, working at a start up, and life. No fun! Well, I'm having a lot of fun, but my Bronco sure isn't!

It seems the fight with Ed Curtis at FTI is over. No new messages from Capital One for months, and I have the money back. Small victories! I have run into a new problem that I've been stuck on - I'm showing excessive lift at the valve. I created a separate thread here in the tech section. I need to decide if I should just run it, or if there is actually a remedy. The next steps on the Bronco are to get the new engine and trans in there, rework the engine and trans mounts, and get back to work on sheet metal. Hoping to really make some progress...while also getting the '69 F100 back to driver state and getting the Cummins swapped '71 F250 Highboy moving under it's own power. Big goals! Ha!

 

[nvrstuk]

Marcus is back!

Glad you won the battle with Ed & Capitol One.

I'll go read your cam issue thread...

Glad you're back!

 

[marjama]

Marcus is back!

Glad you won the battle with Ed & Capitol One.

I'll go read your cam issue thread...

Glad you're back!

Thanks Brian! I never really left...just hard to find time to keep up with everything here! I need to get back into the mode of making a little progress every week...otherwise I will never get the Bronco back on the road. This whole cam issue (starting with Ed) has been a real pain...