Chevy disc brake swap locking hub problems

[DirtDonk]

It sounds like the guy with the "bad ones floating around" comment was referring to private sellers getting rid of theirs that don't work. But I suppose "slimeball" could be referencing just about anyone knowingly selling one that did not work! If a commercial reseller had some returned and just sold them on again anyway, that would certainly be a slimeball move.

And of course, one more thing different about that guy's comments is the fact that he says his automatic locking hubs always worked. Wait, what? Hah! Those auto lockers are one of the reasons companies like Warn sell so many hubs! They didn't work at all more often than they did according to most that owned them and needed them.

I never asked you, are you doing the hub assembly with the weight of the vehicle on, or off of the tires?
Either way though, if the wheel bearings are a little loose just the weight of the tire and wheel hanging in the air can put tension on one side of the lockout and make it harder to seat all the way in.
The good news is that you usually have a hard time just getting it in that first little bit, and yours sounds more like it's going in except for that last tiny bit.
So not likely your issue, but wanted to bring it up anyway. As a "just in case" kind of a thing.

Paul

 

[vash07]

When i first installed them the weight was on the tires. I was having trouble getting the splines to align at all so then i jacked a tire up to take the weight off it and it helped. They are still not fully seating though even with the jeep on jack stands and the tire off.

I have a friend thats a machinist and he is eager to start cutting on something to make it work. I am just worried if i start cutting on the spline or the warn hub it's self i'm going to make matters worse.

With the hub seated as far as it will go there is not much room left in the groove for the outer retaining clip at all. The groove is pretty wide but once the hub body is fully seated there is barely enough room for the clip.

It makes me think taking some off the splines will open up the retaining ring gap wider and letting the hub body sit deeper and allow the chrome cap to seat fully. But i dont know what effect this will have on how the parts of the hub align when locked or unlocked. it maybe be half way engaged or disengaged when it shouldn't be.

 

[DirtDonk]

Should have no effect at all on the function or strength of things. I say let your friend have at it.

As long as the machining process on the bearing hub is along it's axis (depth) and not across it (width) you should be good.
And after all, we're really only talking a few thousandths as a minimum, and perhaps 1/64th inch as a maximum.

If you find you would rather machine on the lockout rather than the bearing hub, you could even do that most likely. Taking down some of the "ring" around the edge.
But I'd go for extra length on the bearing hub's splines.

It may be that this has always been an issue and it's just now getting noticed more often. Or just as likely that junkyard hub you got was in fact a replacement itself.
As far as Raybestos is concerned, we got more good ones than bad, but we got so many bad ones from them as well, that it was not like they were trustworthy. Maybe some are made here still, but even with them I'd bet you're right and they have them all built entirely overseas.
Especially the old parts like ours, that are not sold in high volume any longer, they probably all get made in China and elsewhere to keep costs down. I imagine a part machined in the US in very low volume would be a lot more money than we'd like to spend. So they go cheap...
And then something gets lost in the translation. After all they say over there, "hey, you wanted it cheap, but you never said you wanted them exact!"%)

Paul

 

[Pops68]

Is it possible you don't have the correct lockouts?? Warn make so many different styles. Could that possibly be the problem?? Your hubs are for a different year or different application??

Just a thought.

 

[broncochevy]

Sounds like what Paul said, not enough splines.


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I mean on the hub chrome side


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[DirtDonk]

Is it possible you don't have the correct lockouts?? Warn make so many different styles. Could that possibly be the problem?? Your hubs are for a different year or different application??

Just a thought.

And not a bad thought either!
I'm not personally aware of any that are so close they fill "almost" fit, but that does not mean that such a part does not exist.
The Warn part numbers for the correct hubs have always been #9790 for the Standard hubs, and #20990 for the Premium.
If yours came in the Warn box, that number might be available if you still have the boxes.

Paul

 

[vash07]

I thought i would look up a picture of a Chevy hub just to see how deep it was machined and it looks machined much deeper than the Ford. I dont know how the other measurements compare to the ford though. But just looking at how much more room the Chevy hub has makes me want to start machining on mine it looks much deeper.

 

[vash07]

Is it possible you don't have the correct lockouts?? Warn make so many different styles. Could that possibly be the problem?? Your hubs are for a different year or different application??

Just a thought.

I have Warn 20990 premium hubs. I was using this site when i was doing my hub conversion http://d44tech.com/5lug_conversion.html

He just said to use 19 spline Warn Premium Hubs but he gave no part number. But after looking around it seemed to fit Chevy/Ford/Dodge and other D44's of that era so thats what i bought.

 

[broncochevy]

Those are the correct ones for the application. But the ones in the pic, although I know are not physically the ones you have, look different than mine


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[vash07]

It may be that this has always been an issue and it's just now getting noticed more often. Or just as likely that junkyard hub you got was in fact a replacement itself.

Paul

The ford hub looked cast it had thick casting numbers inside of it between the bearing races and the Raybestos hubs are smooth i am pretty sure they were not replacements.

 

[vash07]

I was talking to my machinist friend about it he said to take a file to the hubs to make sure they were not hardened (they are not) and he would machine them.

I wish i could take a picture of mine because the shoulder inside before the splines start that has the grove in it for the retaining ring that divides the machined surface into 2 sides. The inner side is visibly narrower than the outer portion and in the pic above the chevy version looks wider on the inside.

I am not sure how much to take off but im in no danger of running out of spline sinking it deeper into the Raybestos hub.

The splines in the raybestos hub measure 1-1/16" deep.
The splines on the Warn hub body measure about 7/8" deep

So I'm not in any risk of running out of spline so im going to go ahead and have him machine some off. I will update this with how it goes and if it fixes the problem and seems to work. And hopefully pictures if i can pick up a digital camera at walmart this weekend.

 

[Pa PITT]

Can you take a picture with your cell phone & text it to someone here. & They can post your pictures.
... I don't understand how to post from my phone .. So I have a member here that'll post mine for me.
...........
... I'm thinking when you figure this out it's going to be some mistake you've made .. YOU'LL be SAYING HOW'D I miss that.

 

[vash07]

... I'm thinking when you figure this out it's going to be some mistake you've made .. YOU'LL be SAYING HOW'D I miss that.

lol well i hope not!

I dont have a cellphone i am anti cellphone. I am taking these hubs over to my buddy tonight i will have him take a pic with his cellphone and send them to my email.

I have been thinking about how to fix this for a week and trying to figure out the proper way to do it. But after seeing pictures of the 6 lug chevy hubs they are clearly machined further down so this has to be the issue since they both use the same locking hubs.

The only thing that dont make sense is the OEM Ford hub i had to compare with the Raybestos hubs was machined about the same amount only the splines were tapered (to guide the hub body in easier i assume). I am not sure if this hub came off a F150 or a Bronco but maybe the cut changed in the 80's for auto hubs? I'm not a Ford guy so i can only guess.

Here is what i am thinking though.... Even if he machined off .120" of teeth it's not really going to effect where the hub is supposed to seat. The reason is because when the chrome cap is on and tightened down it draws the hub body closer to the cap until it hits the outer retaining ring stopping it. That is where it's home is and it dont matter that the hub is supposed to "float" because once tightened up it ends up where it is supposed to be anyways.

I am going to find out and maybe this will be of help in the future to others.

 

[vash07]

Here are some before pics

And as you can see there was not much room for the outer retaining clip. This is why there was no in and out play like the warn instructions says there should be.

I am not sure when he will get them machined but i will update it when i get them back.

 

[Pa PITT]

.... What number hub ass. do you have . I'm thinking one of the Raybestos numbers was 2492.That may have been HUB & DISK ROTOR BOTH number..
I'm going to say those 2 parts are to be 1980 up to 1986 ford.
Those chevy spindles was like for 73 1/2 74 & early 75. .

 

[vash07]

.... What number hub ass. do you have . I'm thinking one of the Raybestos numbers was 2492.That may have been HUB & DISK ROTOR BOTH number..
I'm going to say those 2 parts are to be 1980 up to 1986 ford.
Those chevy spindles was like for 73 1/2 74 & early 75. .

Part number is RAYBESTOS 4943R I bought them off rockauto.com for a 1985 Ford F-150 because they were $30 a piece.

They also list 2 other hubs that will work BOSCH 20010482 and ACDELCO 18A246A, but they are more expensive.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1075444&cc=1121555&jsn=507

 

[broncochevy]

You are doing everything smart, I mean double checking everything to make sure you’re not gonna have any clearance issues. I’ve had a spindle not back off and I put pressure on the inside hub assembly on the inside; and it basically trashed the hub. The look washer held the inner locknut from becoming loose, but there was metal shavings everywhere inside the hub assembly.


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[Pa PITT]

ok Mine I bought was the hub & the disk both together an assembly.
.........
... I can't believe we haven't solved this. Not supposed to be this hard .

 

[broncochevy]

Pa, I feel the same way I think it something easy or whatever, Those pictures he’s the last put up tell the tale


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[langester]

I was out in my shop working on my hubs and rotors, came in and saw your post. Not sure if this helps you at all or not. I was cleaning up my hubs and getting ready to install new rotors so here are a couple pics and some measurements from mine. Mine are from a 78 F 150, I have a set of Warn hubs, not sure what model number.
From the top of the lip to the top of where the splines are cut I get .661 of an inch. When I install the mechanism from the top lip to the top of the flat where the screw goes I get .410 of an inch.
Here are a couple pics of what mine look like, the top of the splines are tapered like you described earlier.
If you need some more measurements or any info I can help with let me know.
Good luck, can't wait to see what you come up with.