cooling problems

[Muddn7]

I just read the alum vs copper for overheating, but am still wondering about some other issues that might be specific to mine.

73' with an 83 351W. Mild RV, 600 holley, NP435, ps cooler, dual flow water pump, open to the rear hood scoop, 3 core radiator, new 13lb. cap, and a warn winch recessed into the grill. I DONOT have a shroud or fan on my waterpump. I have an electric fan infront of the radiator. Single fan and it is blowing correctly. I also installed a Mallory distributor and have my timing set at 10 deg. I have heard timing is an issue! I have had no results from running constant 6 degrees all the way to 15 degrees.

1. I have the Bronco sitting outside with a 25% antifreeze mix and 75% water. I keep it running until 5 minutes and see the guage flirting with 200 degrees. At this point, I see it drastically drop to 190, and hold for 5 more minutes (192 thermostat). Then it will start climbing all the way up to 220. I then just shut it down and let the electric fan cool it off. During this check I removed some water from the radiator, and looked for run over (showing that the water pump is working) and it is! Then an hour later, I had the Bronco cool, and drained the radiator.
2. Now I mix it 50/50, and found no differance. I did notice that after the drop in temp for thermostat opening it will climb more while bringing the rpm's up. So then I drained it again. My fan is either on or off, but during all of these checks it is constantly running. I am about to order a 160 stat, and I have an overflow bottle ordered also. Or atleast I am planning on ordering it!

Here comes the confusing part:
Its a 3 core radiator, with the PS cooler on the engine side. I have so many options. I think the radiator is just done, and the fan just isn't doing enough.

Options:
1. Buy another 3 Core, with the shroud and flex fan. I will relocate my PS cooler to be horizontal in front of the left wheel well, and buy an electric to cool it. The problem with that is maybe the winch will block the air (to the rad) and I will still be out hundreds of dollars and time.
2. This is where the experience comes in, tell me your thoughts?

 

[jw0747]

Think you're figuring way too much into this ie. ps cooler, timing, new 3 core, winch location etc. Of course you're going to get about twenty different opinions on cooling issues but if it was mine I'd keep everything the way it's already set up and add two items: a solid blade fan to the water pump with a spacer that keeps it about an inch and 1/2 to two inches from the radiator and a metal shroud. This solved all my cooling issues. I hate flex fans for slow speeds.

 

[Socal Tom]

A) Thermostats aren't fullyopen until they are about 20degrees past the rating. With a 192, that is 212. 220 is hot, but not scary hot. You can probably let it run up to 230 before you start to panic.
b) If your cooling issue is at idle that means its an air flow issue. The lack of a good fan is the likely culprit. Get a good fan and a shroud.

C) A 160 thermostat will make it worse.

D) if you drive it does it cool down? If it cools back to 212 or lower when you are driving 35/40 mph, then your radiator is fine. You just need a mechanical fan and shroud.
Tom

 

[broncnaz]

How old is your 3 row? if over 10 years it needs a good cleaning or replacement BC's HD 3 row or the tripple pass are good one. But First I would get a mechanical fan and shroud see if that makes any differance. I dont think your electric fan is doing its job it seems that at least half the people that try electric only endup going back to mechanical due to cooling issues.
X2 on not going to a 160 t stat. But I would get another Tstat either 180 or 190. I recently did a manifold swap put in a new named brand Tstat and couldnt get the temps up to where they should have been pulled the T stat and found that it wasnt closing if I had done it at this time of year I'm sure it would have cooling issues.
Basically I go with option 1 but you might be able to leave the PS cooler and electric fan in place to help air flow around the winch.

 

[Muddn7]

The PS cooler is on the engine side of the Radiator, so I will need to move it in order to put a fan and shroud on there. Thanks for the replys.....

 

[Muddn7]

more problems

I have removed the radiator, and disconnected the PS cooler for a relocation elsewhere. I have a 17 inch flex fan that came in the box of parts. I cannot get it to fit in the very small area between the radiator and water pump pulley. I took the radiator out, and flushed it with alluminum cleaner. The Radiator isn't aluminum, but this cleaner will clean out deposits from water. Reinstalled the radiator, and found the motor wanting to run at 205 degrees. If I let it sit in this Florida sun all day, I doubt it will go above 205 untouched. Now comes the next part. If I bring the RPM's up to 1500 for about 30 seconds and let off: the temp will raise 5 degrees and stay there. So I went to 205, then 210, then 215. While sitting there, it will not go down. Once I had reached 215, I ran it at idle for 15 minutes, with no change of temperature. As I flushed the Radiator, alot of what I think was calcium came out of the flush. I can still see some of the rows are clogged, so a professional flush or new radiator is in the works. Now comes the ordering part. Do you think the three row replacement will be sufficeint? Also, even if I replace this radiator, will I have enough room for a fan? I measure 2 3/8 inches from the radiator to the tip of the water pump. Is this standard distance? Can someone go out and look at their v-8 settup for this measurement? Thanks

 

[jw0747]

in most situations, you should be able to fit a metal fan into the space between the water pump and radiator unless something has been changed ie. radiator moved rearward, different water pump shaft. the important distance is the space between the fan blades and radiator core. my radiator is a stock, standard EB radiator so measuring my distance probably won't help since yours sounds like a 3-row core. here's what I'd recommend to you. call Chuck or Jason at BC Broncos 1-888-304-2945 and tell them what you've got. they're good and don't try to sell for the sake of selling.

 

[Muddn7]

thanks jw0747

I appreciate your help. I have installed a fan, and short term fixed the problem. It still gets warm, but I have a new radiator coming in tomorrow, with a shroud on order. The old radiator is bad, and the fan on the front is stuck to it. So I will start with a good radiator, knowing that this one is clogged up. I will install a new PS cooler on the front side of this radiator and go from there. I appreciate your help.... Mike

 

[pinky]

I moved my radiator forward by cutting the core support and building struts to support it, then installed a taurus fan between the rad. and the water pump. fixed a cooling problem I have had for 15 years. Will never look back! When you mount a fan to the radiator or shroud you force the air through the radiator it has no choice. I run the three row MX core (3/8 dimple core) which is what chuck sells. You can source it at a local radiator shop.

If you are slow trail running or rock crawling an electric fan will work better to move the air through the radiator. When you run a mechanical fan to cool you are creating more heat in the engine compartment. Kind of self defeating, right?

Another good point is look at all the late moddel cars none of them run a mechanical fan, conventional or transverse mounted, and they are designed to run in a fast food line in death valley with the air conditioning on, and they run electric fans.

 

[kaknblz]

X2 on the Taurus fan. Installed mine with the EFI. Also moved the core support forward to the grill. Im using a Northern aluminum radiator and a 195 tstat. Was just running Snake lake Trail yesterday in near 100 degree heat. During the real steep part it crept up to about 205 and thats it. On the free way going 70 the same day it runs about 210. I think what happens is the fan actually blocks some of the air coming through the grill. I will be adding an oil cooler also for some more cooling.

 

[broncomitch]

could turn your heater on ;D thats what i do when it starts to get hot...tho it never brakes 170 now.

cut slot's in your fenderwells and wrap your pipe's or put a elc fan on top of your hood.

 

[cgbexec]

Get a good fan & shroud and all your overheat problems will go away. I run a 180 thermostat and I run at about 180 to 190 max even in stop and go traffic in Naples, FL. where it is averaging low 90s every day.

 

[73stallion]

i've got a BC triple pass 3 row with a 18" clutch fan, a 180 t-stat, a .060 block, and i haven't gone over 190º in 100º heat the past 2 days. as previously stated, a good core, fan, and shroud will do wonders.

 

[Muddn7]

more info needed

I just installed a NEW 3 Core rad. I also installed a high RPM flex fan, I know, wrong fan! This is why: I have a metal shroud on order, and need some settup advice. I am going to go with a fan, spacer, shroud, and new radiator. All I have left is the fan and spacer to be ordered. Heres where I look to your experience. I am running stock mounts, 3 row radiator, and what I believe is a stock design metal shroud. The parts stores around here have a shortest spacer of 2 inches. I want to know who has a metal shroud, what type of fan, and spacer size? I can get them on order and be done with it. I also heard flex fans are not the way to go, any notes? Thanks...

 

[Muddn7]

looking for specific proven parts for clearance and cooling,

 

[jw0747]

You have a metal shroud on order so no question to answer there, right?

Far as I'm concerned you can toss your flex fan in the trash. They just don't pull enough air at low rpms on trails or rockcrawling. Solid blade fan is my choice.

Where you are now is a decision on type of fan and size of spacer for it to fit. You can get fans from several sources, Jegs, Summit, etc, etc, Got mine off an early Mustang at the local Pick-in-Pull but my favorite EB vendor BC Broncos has a good selection of fans and the best selection of spacers anywhere in several sizes. Check their web site.

 

[Socal Tom]

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Steel_Blade_Fan_Standard_Rotation_18in/Cooling_Fans

 

[kaknblz]

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Steel_Blade_Fan_Standard_Rotation_18in/Cooling_Fans

I have one of these in great shape that was on before I did the electric fan. $20 plus shipping and its yours. I also have a flexolite 18" flex fan that worke even better on the trail. Also $20 plus shipping. Have a nice fan shroud also if your interested..