cooling question

[matt69]

Disclaimer: I am new to this so if I don't use the terminology please excuse me.;D ;D

Okay, I poked a hole in the radiator today and upon further inspection found that many of the fins were smashed down and very fragile. I have had some cooling issues before so I am going to replace the radiator and have some questions.

1. Is the Ron Davis aluminum radiator really worth the extra money or use one of the heavy-duty 3 core radiators?

2. How difficult is it to go away from the regular fan and put on an electric fan?
-Is there any downfall doing this?

3. Should I get an external tranny cooler or one that is built into the radiator? I have a C4.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

matt

 

[nashville77]

you might want to provide some particulars like engine and how you use your bronco. is it a daily driver? recreational?

 

[matt69]

QUOTE][/you might want to provide some particulars like engine and how you use your bronco. is it a daily driver? recreational?QUOTE]

It is a daily driver/trail truck with a mildly built 302 with a C4 automatic. It has the two belt setup. It has power steering, no AC, 3.5inch suspension lift, 2inch body lift with 36x14.50 superswampers.

Did I leave any other details out?

matt

matt

 

[adunham]

Matt - are you in Peoria Arizona or Peoria Illinois? If its AZ I wouldn't even consider an electric fan...

 

[matt69]

I am in Peoria, Arizona, so I guess that answers one of my questions.

matt

 

[broncnaz]

I dont think the aluminum radiators are worth the price. I had a 4 row in my 73 it ran hot all the time due to poor tank design that would cause the tanks to flex and crack the Solder I went back to a 3 row from BC broncos now it runs cool again and is hard to get up to 190 even in the summer when its 110 outside.. The BC 3 pass is supposed to be the top of the line and I hear nothing but good things about them.
I would get a external trans cooler even if you keep the stock type in radiator trans cooler it will help your trans live longer.
Most people that swap on electric fans find they dont work. You can try as some people do run them but I would stay with the engine driven fan.

 

[mkaenel]

It kind of depends on how much you want to spend. I am looking at replacing my entire cooling system and it will run me about $1200 if I go with the Ron Davis. There is a lot of posts praising the BC Bronco 3 pass radiator. Do a search on radiators.

I also plan on using a remote location tranny cooler to maximize the cooling efficiency of the radiator.

Also, welcome to the world of an empty wallet.

 

[matt69]

Yep, know all about the empty wallet thing. Has anybody added a manual fan in front of the radiator to turn on when idling a lot or in tight trails where air is limited? Or will a properly working radiator cool just fine when it is 110degrees outside?

matt

 

[Gummi Bear]

I live here in Texas, where it gets every bit as hot as it does for you guys. I run an old Duffy's radiator, stock 7 blade fan, shroud and stock water pump on my mild 302. I also have a C4, and use the radiator cooling, as well as a external cooler. I also have a P/S cooler in front of my radiator.

It has never gotten hot, even crawling down in the bottoms, 200* is about it.

 

[matt69]

Okay, it sounds like aluminum is out and I will head over to BC's site and check out there heavy duty radiator, tranny cooler and pusher type fan.

matt

 

[Gummi Bear]

Okay, it sounds like aluminum is out and I will head over to BC's site and check out there heavy duty radiator, tranny cooler and pusher type fan.

matt

The Al radiators have a good reputation, I've just never owned one, so I have no barometer for their performance.

Forget about the pusher fan, it will hurt more than help. Believe it or not, it will restrict more airflow than it will create.

My fixed blade stock fan with stock shroud (lowered to facilitate the body lift), while it is a noisy bugger, sucks in so much air, that it will pull my T-shirt toward the grille when I stand in front of the rig.

Run that for now, and if you feel it's still not cooling enough, look into the perforated fender skirts that American Bronco offers (I think that's who designed them). At that point, getting cool air in isn't as much of an issue as getting the hot air out.

 

[md_lucky_13]

I generally am the only person you will find that will actually defend the electric fans..

As far as your engine and radiator are concerned, it doesn't matter which fan you choose to run.. What matters is CFM (cubic feet per minute) flow of air THROUGH that radiator, and AREA.

Where most people fail, and fail miserably, is that they try to build an electric system that doesn't move enough CFM, and doesn't cover enough AREA to make it work. If you are pulling the correct amount of CFM through a large enough area, you are not going to over-heat. This assumes that you have a decent radiator and CAPACITY in the cooling system.

here is a link to some pictures of the setup that I went to:
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme3/lucky_13_bronco/Engine/engine.html


Now, I have over-heated.. I even did it today. While there are many contributing factors to over-heating (mine being a gear/tire size ratio and rodding through 2 feet of snow.. ) I have a major advantage over any mechanical fan in the world.

When I start to get warm.. Before I actually over-heat, I pull over, shut off the engine, and let my electric fans continue to run. I have them set to automatically turn on/off at 185*, but I ALSO have them wired into a toggle switch.. This way I can leave them on for a while, turn them off when I want (I can also turn them off when going into really deep mud holes.. Something that is an advantage over even mechanical fans)..

If I just turn off the bronco for 5 mins, drink a soda, admire the country side.. Hop back in, fire it up, and I'm back down to under 180*.. While everyone else who is over-heating is still over-heating, or had to sit and let their truck idle for the entire time and STILL not accomplish the same amount of temperature drop I did.

For me, there is only 1 choice: Ron Davis aluminum radiator, and dual electric fans that move over 1200CFM!!

 

[matt69]

Mike, that is a pretty sweet setup. I think I am going to go with a new 3 core triple pass radiator and see what I get.

matt

 

[Sac '68 sport]

I had a high effecency 3 core built by a local radiator shop and it has worked well even in the Sacramento heat and traffic. Not sure of the difference between this one and the B.C. unit but I would imagine they are very similar, or even the same unit. I doubt there are that many outfits making the actual radiator cores and tanks. It was about the same cost initially as the BC (actually a little less due to shipping), but I had some mods done for my AC unit so it wound up being about the same once you figured in shipping.
Redline Water wetter with a lean mix (30/70) antifreeze/water will also help lower your temps if your overheating.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I like aluminium for radiators. Just did a small one on a built Ranger V8 (same size as a Bronco) and it cools great. But you need to maintain the aluminium better. No filling it with tap water, don't let it get nasty.

That is where copper radiators are a bit nicer. You can take them to a local rad shop, take the solder off the tanks, rod them out, solder them back together and hit the road again. They also respond better to home patches using a propane torch and solder from home plumbing projects (that saved me once on a Sunday)

Fan and fan shroud are critical to Bronco cooling. Move a bunch of air.
Don't be alarmed with 200°+ in the summer. As long as there is water in there and it isn't super hot (230~235°) and it isn't boiling out. It will be fine. That's how Bronco's are in AZ during the summer.

 

[76 bronco J]

I use the Black Magic electric fan(4 3/4 inches thick) with the duff's aluminum radiator & opened back proflo hood also--- the only way this setup would fit without cutting & sectioning is with the explorer belt system--I ground the threaded water pump snout for no possibilty of hitting but it barely cleared anyway- this fan covers nearly the whole radiator with its built in shroud-- thin electric fans do not work & electric fans seem to pull more air easily through the 1'' tube 2 core aluminums than the 3 or 4 core coppers-- with the stock motor & rad & hood it would creep up to the 210 plus area in heavy hot weather traffic(no AC)-- current motor is a carbed 5.0 ford crate(y303 heads,E303) with a carter electric fuel pump(neccesity with the explorer system)-- most people switched to the explorer system to use the mechanical clutch fan but I've been very happy with this setup & the 130 amp explorer alternator is plenty happy with the electric fan--- I changed all this during the motor install because of the stock issues & crossed my fingers -- I creep up to 190 degrees in super hot weather -- I took out my AC for now(worn out & underdash) so I not sure how this setup would work with AC condensor heating up & blocking the airflow--the stock fan setup did not like the AC system at all--- I don't know if aluminum or copper is better but my aluminum seems to get the job done----- I think the main issue for electric fans is depth(skinny fans don''''''t work) & higher amp alternator---

 

[md_lucky_13]

I think the main issue for electric fans is depth(skinny fans don''''''t work) & higher amp alternator---

I've gotta disagree.

The issue is flow (CFM) not depth dimension of the fan (although size does matter, it has to do with surface contact area, not motor size).

The biggest issue is that most electric compact fans are NOT moving enough CFM... The smaller fans are not rated to move a huge amount of CFM.. That is why it is very important to read all specs. before considering a purchase.

 

[76 bronco J]

if not clear enough---- fans that fit in the stock area don't pull enough cfm's even with powerful AMP motors--- therefore Depth of the electric fan is directly related Cfm's---- black magic pulls up to 2800 cfms & draws between 13-14 amps

 

[Bart]

A good 6 or 7 blade mechanical fan behind and a helper electric in the front has helped me in the passed with the summer heat. I have also installed foam rubber on both sides of the radiator, put a sheet metal blockade at the front bottom as an air dam. Then I found that several companies make a top air dam and some far that combination has dropped my temps 20 degrees. I'm looking forward to summer to see if it works then also.

 

[md_lucky_13]

if not clear enough---- fans that fit in the stock area don't pull enough cfm's even with powerful AMP motors--- therefore Depth of the electric fan is directly related Cfm's---- black magic pulls up to 2800 cfms & draws between 13-14 amps

No, that is incorrect.

CFM has nothing to do with the DEPTH of a fan. A strong pancake style electric motor fan will pull enough CFM if designed correctly. The rating of CFM pull isn't dependent on the type of electric motor or depth of the fan.

The circumfrence of the fan is directly related to the cooling ability of the fan. You can have 2 fans, 1 10" circ. and 1 20" circ. They both can be rated to pull 2000 CFM, but the 20" fan will be more efficiant in cooling because it has a larger SURFACE area, which has nothing to do with the depth of the fan.

Most people that try electric fans put 1 large fan rated to pull XXXX cfm. This does not address surface area. This is no different then having cooling problems with a mechanical fan and curing those problems just by adding a radiator shroud. The amount of air through the radiator is extremely important. Equally important is making sure the air is pulled through as much surface area as possible.

In contrary, most people that try electric fans may double them up, but not have enough CFM flow. They address the surface area problem by using multiple fans, but they do not realize that pancake style motors are generally less efficiant then the larger style motors, and therefore do not pull enough CFM. That is why it is important to make sure your fans pull enough CFM, regardless of motor (depth) size.

The only time depth becomes a variable at all is when you are searching for room between the engine and the radiator, which is where the pancake style motor shines. But once again, this depth measurement has nothing to do with the fan's CFM RATING.