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cutting manual steering shaft for borgeson joint

Sniper

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Apr 23, 2013
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finally got the parts in from wild horses and i was given a joint which needs to be welded instead of the joint which was supposed to come which only needed to be drilled for a bolt through the column. anyways. i've removed all the bolts and i am about ready to pull the whole column so the shaft can be cut down and the joint welded, i was wondering however how much i need to cut off, or how to properly measure the shaft to be cut. it's running a 36 spline bronco PS box that was freshly rebuilt by west texas.

also wondering if i should pull the whole column or if i should leave it until i get the exact measurements or if it should be measured out of the truck.
 

DirtDonk

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I would measure in the truck I would think. Unless someone has the exact measurement you need of course. In that case, taking it out would just make things easier.

But first, if you didn't get the joint you want, maybe return it for the correct one? Unless there were no other options for what you wanted to do. As in, you need it back on the road like, today, so can't wait for another style.
Sorry you got a surprise instead of a known-commodity!

Are you just doing the joint alone, down at the box end? Or are you going with the whole shaft? Sounds like the box end joint only, so was wondering.
Did you get the #2157 Spicer type setup? Or something else? I'm not even sure that the Spicer type is available as a "bolt-through" design anymore. I thought it was intended as a weld-on, unless you drilled and pinned it yourself.

Good luck. And take pics!;D

Paul
 
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Sniper

Sniper

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on the site it showed a picture of a bolt through and from the instructions that were listed on the site for the PS conversion which used the same joint showed a bolt through install and the rep i talked with on the phone confirmed this and did offer to replace it, saying that they were phasing the weld and bolt style out for DD style and did offer to replace it free of charge. however it was an honest mistake made on both end and i really don't mind welding it on, just hoping it won't be an issue down the road if it needs replacing and DD is the only option. which at that point i may just need a new shaft.

currently i am re-using the manual shaft (one peice) for simplicities sake and durability having only one joint, as the truck is not using a lift of any kind.

it's not a big issue. i just don't know HOW to do it. i would LOVE to get this truck back on the road so i can drive a bronco for the rest of the winter (was supposed to be my DD through the winter) just not sure what to do, though i am positive that the local 4x4 shop will weld the joint on for me i just don't know how to go about it as i can't get the truck to them without steering as a tow would cost me more than the install and parts combined.
 

DirtDonk

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Gotcha. I didn't see a bolt-through on the site, except the one for the steering box end. The only pics I saw showed that and a weld-on for the shaft.

Should be pretty straightforward (famous last words, as they say!) I would think. Is the box mounted up yet, or do you have to pull the shaft up a bit to get the box in?
You may just have to do your own "measure-thrice, cut-once" routine. But I would say that the box has to be mounted in it's final spot before you can tell where to cut.

Remove the cross-pins, sleeves and anything else at the tip of the shaft, pull the shaft or column back if you must to get it to line up with the new box and joint, note how far you had to pull it back, then cut that same amount off the end of the shaft.
Leave enough extra to grind or file down if it turns out to be too long still and you have to fine-tune it. Get it trial fitted first, mark the spot clearly where you want the end of the joint, then take the entire column out to have it welded at the local shop.

Someone here may know if the shaft can be re-inserted through the column from the bottom (with the assembly out of the truck) or not. If not, you must have the joint welded with the shaft still in the column because it's never going to come down from the top again.
But if it can come in from the bottom (which I think it can) then you can take just the shaft itself to the shop. Then assemble the column again and put it in the truck from the cab.

If you really preferred, you could still drill a through-hole in both the joint and shaft, then use either a regular bolt, or that special type of tapered bolt they use in aircraft in just this type of application. Be easier with a drill press I would think.

The welding itself should not cause anything irreversible down the road. If the joint ever wears out, you can buy just the u-joint center cross by itself and replace it.
If you ever change the box to a design that does not use the same shaft size/spline count, you can either get another joint if there is still shaft length after you cut the old joint off, or just finally replace the whole lower part of the shaft with a collapsible type with two joints. Do that and never look back or worry about future-proof issues.

Depending on what it costs to get the bits over to the shop, have them weld it, get it back and installed and the headache of not being able to do it yourself, you might just have almost justified the extra for the whole shaft!;D

Paul
 

Explorer

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Mar 2, 2008
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I added a universal coupler when converting my 66 to PS. Not really wanting to weld it, I marked and cut shaft while in the vehicle. Slid upper portion towards cab, put together and drilled for thru bolts. Easy to take apart should the need arise. Different arrangement, but same principle. Cuts and drills rather easily.
 

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Sniper

Sniper

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at this point i am almost starting to think i should have gone with the collapsible shaft in the first place, but i didn't think of that and didn't see any collapsible shafts on WH's site. honestly i'm thinking i would have been alot less hassle because i could've avoided pulling the whole column.

if i were to replace it, seems i need to replace the entire shaft, i'm only seeing vendors selling the lower shaft. i'm using a manual shaft which is a one peice. two peice would be very nice and is what i have in both my other bronco's which are lifted. this one may get a lift down the road but still uncertain.

or is this typically, buy another u joint and cut the column in two locations mounting a joint at the top and one at the bottom?
 

DirtDonk

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Sounds like you went straight to the steering yoke/u-joint section of the website and stayed there? If you click on the dedicated section for steering shafts, this is what comes up: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/category/Bronco_Steering_Shafts

Did you happen check out our video of how to install a lower collapsible shaft on a 1-piece manual shaft? If you click on the #2161 page, you will see a link to "Watch The Videos" section.
At this time, only the "custom shaft" video shows up (http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Custom_Lower_Steering_Shaft#videos) but I've requested that the other video on how to make your stock shaft into a double-D shaft be linked there as well.
I'll try to find it and post up a link here as well.
It's pretty easy. Well, Jim makes it look easy, but the best advice he gives (related to the old "measure twice, cut once" advice, is to only grind a tiny bit at a time so you don't take away too much.
Much harder to put it back... ;)

Paul
 
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Sniper

Sniper

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I see, I was looking for an entire shaft (upper and lower) now I understand you only sell lowers which requires modifying the one price shaft for it. I think ill probably just do the weld on like you said and down the road may replace it for a custom shaft when the time comes, thanks again!
 

bax

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I have done what you are thinking / trying to do. I did it all in the truck. It was not that hard. I cut the shaft and removed the manual box. I installed the power box. put the new joint on the box to get a good place to cut the shaft to the correct length. Took the joint back off. cut the shaft to the correct length. Had to grind a D into the shaft. Got it to fit the new joint. put the two together. installed the set screw. And for safety sake I put a tack weld on the joint and shaft. It's not a hard job. Go do it.
 

muskrat

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I have done what you are thinking / trying to do. I did it all in the truck. It was not that hard. I cut the shaft and removed the manual box. I installed the power box. put the new joint on the box to get a good place to cut the shaft to the correct length. Took the joint back off. cut the shaft to the correct length. Had to grind a D into the shaft. Got it to fit the new joint. put the two together. installed the set screw. And for safety sake I put a tack weld on the joint and shaft. It's not a hard job. Go do it.


I did it this way too. I was a complete rookie and I still was able to do it. I like the joint in middle also for safety sake. I did read some stories about the importance of having a shaft that will collapse in the event of a front end collision.

You know what else I have learned working on my bronco? don't rush. Thats when mistakes happen. It hasn't been easy for me. I am ADD and impatient! LOL



Good luck.
 
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Sniper

Sniper

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my main issue with doing it myself is that i currently do not have a welder, or a cutting wheel, i have had alot of experience welding and cutting in school just don't have personal tools at my disposal.
 

bax

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my main issue with doing it myself is that i currently do not have a welder, or a cutting wheel, i have had alot of experience welding and cutting in school just don't have personal tools at my disposal.

Thats crap no tool's back in my day we had to hacksaw stuff like this apart. then take a file to fit stuff. Walk up hill in the snow to school. stuff like that. You own a Bronco Man!!! save up your going to need tools.
 

csmith441

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I did this conversation last spring and its very easy.

I bought the custom lower shaft from WH. http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Custom_Lower_Steering_Shaft

I didn't take mine apart. I used a Sawzall to cut steering shaft ( Rotating it a little at a time) then an angle grinder to make the shaft in the DD of the joint. Just take your time. You can rent these items at Home Depot. Hell everyone needs an angle grinder and Sawzall it's an excuse to go get them!!!

I personally thought this route was the easiest when going to powers steering.
 
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Sniper

Sniper

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not one to skip an excuse for tools, however my dad is. it took about 3 months of my pestering till he finally let me buy a compressor and a cheap air tool set.

i have a non DD joint so i have to weld it and i don't have 220v so renting a welder is not an option i have been bugging him for a few months about getting one and putting a 220v outlet in the garage. mom is usually putting a damper on these things... especially since she keeps trying to sell my 69.

mom is currently trying to cut any and all unnecessary spending as she sees it is a bad expense as in her mind we are selling the 69 as soon as it is running.
 
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