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Dual Battery Setup

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
This is going to sound funny coming from me in the middle of all this, but I think Steve is trying to help, I dont agree with the help, but he is still trying to help others in the threads we have butted heads in. To me that is a lot different than some troll just looking to pick fights for no reason. I think people that try to help others should be kept around, they are hard to find some times.

I am not saying I am not aggravated, but ......
 

Laker

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
112
Gooda one.........One day i will have power steering and move the pump from under my sleeves over to the engine side.......guess then will have to relocate the relocated coolant res.
RRRaaayyy2...as a new guy here,if I could comment please. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this site and a ton of different opinions.I like to hear all, no offence to you and you seem to know what you're talking about, but as you know when things go south like this people will tend too drop off from posting stuff for fear of getting slammed!!
I like the ignore the greasy comments approach.......know its hard but works for me. By the way I do love this site would like to be around here for a while as there is so much here to learn from all the knowzers......no slam intended.
There is no doubt I will look forward to RRRAAAYYYs' expert advice.........just wished his handle was RAY2!!LOL
 

NGABronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
7,377
Loc.
N. GA now South Carolina
Hey laker, I was just poking at ya'!!! I like the 2 batts. like you have, but with the p/s pump and cooler it gets tight there, plus I'm using the 2nd batt. for my rear winch, so I did the isolator route. mainly to avoid 30' of batt. cable. I mounted my 2nd batt. behind the rear fender well and ran a 10ga wire from the isolator to the 2nd batt. Should work for me. My front winch is off the stock mounted batt. I should have 2 well charged batt. at all times.
The Crazy Horse has one of the hi dollar solenoid units that I need to troubleshoot now cause it's not working properly.
Good luck with your's!!!!:cool::cool::cool:
 

Laker

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
112
Hey NGA,no offence taken.I knew you were pokin a little fun there. I know the Georgia sense of humour all too well. Have some awesome buds that come up hunting here every year and when they leave my guts are sore for a month!!!!!!
i'm going to run #2cu cable permanently to the back from my aux battery.
I use the quick connect welding cable plugs at both front and back for my winch,which has the reciever mount.
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
Gooda one.........One day i will have power steering and move the pump from under my sleeves over to the engine side.......guess then will have to relocate the relocated coolant res.
RRRaaayyy2...as a new guy here,if I could comment please. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this site and a ton of different opinions.I like to hear all, no offence to you and you seem to know what you're talking about, but as you know when things go south like this people will tend too drop off from posting stuff for fear of getting slammed!!
I like the ignore the greasy comments approach.......know its hard but works for me. By the way I do love this site would like to be around here for a while as there is so much here to learn from all the knowzers......no slam intended.
There is no doubt I will look forward to RRRAAAYYYs' expert advice.........just wished his handle was RAY2!!LOL

I think you will find that people getting slammed doesnt happen ever around here. It is a great site, with great people, including Steve.
 

Buldozer

Bronco Virtuoso
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
3,065
Loc.
God's Country
Ray I know your correct because I have my rig wired just like you suggested....;) and that high output alternator keeps both batteries hot and ready to go! ;) No way to argue with that! My 10,000 lb winch pulls equally on both batteries and I am the responsible party to not burn it up. That set up works great. ;D
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,841
A more recent setup from Painless looks interesting. Part number #40120 Digital Power Manager.
Automatically charges the main battery first, then when it's good to go, automatically switches to the aux (or more likely both) to charge it back up, if needed.
Also, when a heavy load is sensed on the main battery it will automatically switch to both so that whatever the load is (like a winch) can pull from both batteries.
Supposedly too, it'd stop draining the main once it reaches a set point. But I'm not sure about that last bit.
Should be interesting though. Maybe Wild Horses or someone has used them already and has some more info as to their usefulness.

Paul
 

57bronco

New Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
35
Loc.
Gainesville, Ga
A more recent setup from Painless looks interesting. Part number #40120 Digital Power Manager.
Automatically charges the main battery first, then when it's good to go, automatically switches to the aux (or more likely both) to charge it back up, if needed.
Also, when a heavy load is sensed on the main battery it will automatically switch to both so that whatever the load is (like a winch) can pull from both batteries.
Supposedly too, it'd stop draining the main once it reaches a set point. But I'm not sure about that last bit.
Should be interesting though. Maybe Wild Horses or someone has used them already and has some more info as to their usefulness.

Paul

http://www.jegs.com/i/Painless+Performance+Products/764/40120/10002/-1
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
A more recent setup from Painless looks interesting. Part number #40120 Digital Power Manager.
Automatically charges the main battery first, then when it's good to go, automatically switches to the aux (or more likely both) to charge it back up, if needed.
Also, when a heavy load is sensed on the main battery it will automatically switch to both so that whatever the load is (like a winch) can pull from both batteries.
Supposedly too, it'd stop draining the main once it reaches a set point. But I'm not sure about that last bit.
Should be interesting though. Maybe Wild Horses or someone has used them already and has some more info as to their usefulness.

Paul

I do not see the difference between it and the surePower unit, except it has some wire with it, and another $80 in cost.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,841
Hey Ray, I hadn't seen your mention of it until just now when I read backwards to the beginning of this thread. I've heard of SurePower, but don't remember any details, so I'll go check them out now.

By the way, in post #5 you were pretty adamant against mag-switch type systems. Did you explain in detail why you're so against them? If not, care to go into more detail? If you did though, I missed it on my first pass and will probably come across it when I re-read the posts.
Or if you discussed it in a different thread, maybe you could point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Paul
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
I think part of the problem with batteries fighting each other, is really a reference to batteries being out of balance. Which is what I am trying to avoid but wiring the batteries as I have in the above diagrams. It is extremely important. I will try and explain with some examples.

You buy two batteries, one has an at rest voltage of 12.789 and the other 12.623. When the laternator shuts off to read the battery voltage (does up to 333 times a second), it would read the battery voltage as 12.706, the average of the two. It then sets it charge rate based on this number, and the first battery gets over charged, and the second battery not enough of a charge.

Used to see in a big truck with 4 group 31's. If one battery went bad, you had to replace all 4. Otherwise the new battery would be boiled in about a month.

Now when you guys use solenoids to separate the batteries, and only use one battery ever now and then. You create a major imbalance between the two batteries. So when they are being used together or charging together, they are getting damaged by each other and the alternator at the same time. Might not be seeing it because you are not doing it often, but it is still happening.

Even if you keep them connected full time by a solenoid, there is stil a voltage drop between the two because of the contacts in the solenoid. Plus you always have the drain/draw of the solenoids themsleves. That is a bad percentage of power to give up at idle.

I can understand concern about playing your stereo at the beach with the truck off and flattening the batteries. But I would suggest wiring the batteries together the best way possible to keep the balanced, and then spending your money on a low voltage alarm. So you know you have drop thme battery power to a point, and just need to start up recharge thme for 15-20 minutes.

When researching, also remember to try understand what the purpose of the option is. Factory is do it as cheap as possible and still have it last 3 years. If it is an aftermarket company, are they have RD, do the service the fleet/service industry, are they a manufacturer, rebadger. A lot of what you see post on the web about electrical stuff coems from people outside of the actual industry. People that really know a little about it, but in truth have no clue what they are talking about, what the product they are marketing actually is, etc, etc.

I am not pointing at individuals here by any means, so please dont think that. But I here things like "Well MG wires it that way, so it has to be right". I can see why a consumer would think that. But the truth is, MG doesnt understand what they were doing wrong to their own starters. "well but it has lasted for a couple of years" Yeah lots will, but the average is half of what it would be if done properly.

I hope my point is clear. If you absolutely need to spearatre the batteries, I would suggest a product called a battery Separater by Sure Power. 1314 I think is the part number. But there are so few applications that really should be using them.

Mostly in here, though I didnt give too much detail. Basically they create a voltage drop between the batteries, as does the Surepower's Seperator. Isolators lose almost a volt through them too. So all these options should only be used in very specific applications, and 99% of you guys are not one of those applications.
 

DirtDonk

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Bronco Guru
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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,841
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I saw that post and got most of what you said. Was glad someone brought up the imbalance you get sometimes with batteries too.
Caught what you said about the voltage drop, but didn't equate it with your specific negative feelings.
Gonna have to read it a couple more times I guess. Oh goody! ;D

Paul
 

RRRAAAYYY2

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
1,684
Loc.
Brantford, Ontario
Most of my negative feelings come from the idea that the best way to keep the batteries balanced, in great shape, and supply the best current to the system, is to hard wire them together as I did in the diagrams on the first page. Unless you have a camper and intend to run the batteries way down, that is the best way to do it, cheapest and best performance.

Now not the vendors, but companies have since come along and created a product to sell to consumers, that in most cases, cause negative effects on the overall performance of the system. That is why I get my back up. A little bit because it is a waste of money. But also because what happens if you are on the trail with one of the original stand by type systems that you have used a couple of times. But it has been about 7 months since the last time you needed the second battery. But it is there, so you are not worried. But then go to use it and find out it is junk from sitting for 7 months (or even 2 or 3) without being used. Then you are screwed on the trail.

Batteries once you start using them, like to be used (cycled) regularly.

Those setups rank higher than the one wire vs 3 wire debate, as the for the most part have a negative effect on the system. Not just them, isolators, separators do as well. But in specific applications, all three would have a purpose. But having a winch is pretty much the opposite they are useful for.

I wouldnt blame vendors for them, as they are supplying what people are asking for.

Hope that makes more sense.
 

DirtDonk

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Bronco Guru
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Messages
47,841
Yep, lots of sense. Thanks for re-hashing the details in, well, more detail. Appreciate it.
I knew of some of the drawbacks, but didn't realize that the solenoid kits had their potential long-term drawbacks as well. I've been a big fan of their relative performance and convenience for years and have said so many times.
From personal experience, and certainly lack of formal education, they've all been positive experiences. But looking back, my solenoid systems might not have been run long enough to see the downsides, before getting rid of the vehicle. I had an isolator system long enough though, and though convenient and simple, wasn't impressed with the balancing act it apparently couldn't achieve.

And these issues don't seem to come up in the mainstream media of course, who, for the most part, only get things to use for a short period of time and by nature, must get most of their information from the manufacturers. Not all of whom know, or will say, what might be bad about their product.
So it's good to hear all the other stuff we need to know.

Thanks again.

Paul
 
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