Explain to me please front tires toed out after backing up

[dholder]

How can my front tires be toed in and tilted out at the top and after I back up, they are toed out and tilted in at the top. I can find nothing loose, it drives really good but my camber needs to be adjusted because the tires are wearing hard on the outside and I can see they are tilted out at the top. Is this normal?

 

[Crush]

A little toe in and a little posative camber( tilted out at top) are good for our 4x4 fords with radius arms. It helps them track better. But when you back up they tend to do just as you say. When moving forward, everything is pushed against. Friction makes the road push the front differential against the radius arms, pulls the front wheels apart at the front ( toe out) which in turn creates negative camber ( tilted in at top). So our settings are to the posative camber and toe in to counteract this reaction. When backing up it exaggerates the settings. Clear as mud?

 

[dholder]

Pretty muddy! I'll have to think about that tomorrow when my mind is fresh. But it sounds like you have noticed this before and is not necessarily a problem.

 

[Crush]

What year bronco? If a 76 or 77 the toe in problem is more pronounced with the dreaded y linkage. Both of mine have it and do it worse than my buddies 74's. But his 76 does it too. However check your tie rod ends to make sure they are not worn out or loose. This can cause a little bit of that to happen too

 

[Whoaa]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.....


Post a pic of the tire wear you're describing.

And post some pic's of the lean you're describing, try to steady the camera plum to the Bronco so that viewer's can can an accurate idea of whats going.

I have some general idea's, however you said "nothing is loose". Maybe you can't shake it and feel something loose, but I suspect a lot of wear. Ball joints. Very wore ball joints will still drive "nice".

.....>Jack the front end off the ground, now grab the tire/wheel and try to move it in & out, top-to-bottom....any play here?

 

[Pa PITT]

...ok my mind is Muddy ALSO .. SO LET ME GIVE YOU MY COWBOY CHEAP ALIGNMENT ..
.............
.. FIND A GOOD PIECE OF FLAT CONCRETE...
.. DRIVE Forward slowly . DON'T TOUCH YOUR BREAKS .. let it roll to a stop on it's own.
... Get a friend to hold the other end of a measuring devise .. I like 2 pieces of conduit piping.. one pushed inside of the other. put a Mark from a Marks a lot... on it from sliding it apart with it measuring the width of the front of the tires.. Then at the same height measure the back of the tires .. At the very same level from front to back.
This is why you need 2 people .. All you want to know is how much the tires are tilted in at the front. Sorry But I like mine almost 1/2 inch .. Book will say 1/4 BUT I HAVE NOTHING THAT NICE. SO almost 1/2 toe end works better for me..
...... NOW with out touching a thing.. Get your grand fathers BUILDERS SQUARE PLACE THE SHORT END on the Ground .. & the tall end up against the top of the tire ..
OBVIOUSNESS, Right through the center of your locking hub .. ..
... Now you can see how much your tires are biting inward . To me almost anything top out is good .. Just not straight up & down ..AND Nothing with the top of the tire pointing inward ....
.... TOE IS EASY TO FIX.. twist a sleeve one way or the other .. .. TOP OF TIRE .. WELL THEY MAKE TWISTABLE SLEEVES to go around the ball joint studs ... you can change the angle rather fast with this Bushing ..
...........
... And yes after about 6 beers I'm sure my post is clear as dark mud...
...............
... Funny in the past some one on here was having real trouble with this issue.. So he said he read my post about 10 times to under stand it.. & Later he did it .. Later he came back & said his BRONCO drove better than it had in years.
... If You can't under stand my post .. I'll give you my Cell NO. & MAYBE I can explain it better ..
.... Hope this will help.

 

[dholder]

I may not have explained well enough. There are no worn or loose hard parts in the front end. All ball joints were just replaced along with one loose tie rod end and adj. track bar with new bushings installed. I am not concerned with the tire wear as I know the reason and will correct it shortly with ball joint eccentrics. What I am questioning is the fact that after I back up a few feet, the tires become TOED OUT and LEAN OUT at the top. When I move forward the tires become TOED IN and LEAN IN at the top. 1974 3.5 lift 35 in tires.
It drives perfect. Hands off, no wandering, no bump steer.

 

[Pa PITT]

...Well then I'M GOING TO SAY IT'S A FORD THING.. I've seen lots of old ford do this.

 

[jrcflash]

The passenger side of my 76 front end has always had what seems to be excessive positive camber. I bought a camber correction plate that will go behind the knuckle. If I ever get the body reassembled and onto the frame I will let you know how it worked out...

 

[DirtDonk]

I think you'll have to resort to actual measurements then dholder. With standard T-linkage, you should not be experiencing any changes once you're back to center.
Yes, things change due to caster and such, but that's only while you're turning. Not when everything is back to center.

Because the linkage is rigid, and the toe-in is a set value, the only way the toe-in is going to change (and stay changed) is if something is flexing or loose. The tires themselves can add to this look with sidewall flex, but I've never seen that flex STAY after the maneuvers are over.

I know the others say this is normal, and maybe it is, but I've never seen a Bronco to what you're describing. If you see these changes with the wheels turned still, that's one thing. But if the changes remain after the tires are returned to center, then either it's a visual thing, or something is wrong.
At least that's what I think.

Maybe it's time for a YouTube video? Got GoPro?;D

Paul