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For the Ford EFI gurus..SD versus MAF

bmc69

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I'm in process of starting an '89 Mustang 5.0 HO. Has new RJM harness installed. Yesterday I tried to start it with the A9L computer I had on hand, but it's throwing a code 15 and, worse, only firing the injectors on the passenger side cylinder bank. It does barely start and run on the pass side four cylinders...


My question is....can I plug an earlier ('87) speed-density ECM in and connect a vacuum line to the BAP sensor just to get some test run time in while awaiting another A9L ECM? I have a "DA1" or A1B ECM sitting here..couple other SD ECMs around somewhere too.
 

57baja

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I'm in process of starting an '89 Mustang 5.0 HO. Has new RJM harness installed. Yesterday I tried to start it with the A9L computer I had on hand, but it's throwing a code 15 and, worse, only firing the injectors on the passenger side cylinder bank. It does barely start and run on the pass side four cylinders...


My question is....can I plug an earlier ('87) speed-density ECM in and connect a vacuum line to the BAP sensor just to get some test run time in while awaiting another A9L ECM? I have a "DA1" or A1B ECM sitting here..couple other SD ECMs around somewhere too.

You can't run a sd computer without changing stuff in the wire harness because the maf wires would be unplugged and the pack that plugs into the computer is set up for maf. Did you plug the obd code reader into the harness and do the readiness check?
 
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bmc69

bmc69

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You can't run a sd computer without changing stuff in the wire harness because the maf wires would be unplugged and the pack that plugs into the computer is set up for maf. Did you plug the obd code reader into the harness and do the readiness check?

Pretty much figured that out..thanks. I've got another A9L on the way.

The OBD reader is "permanently" attached until I get this thing running right..LOL. The only "bad" code it was throwing is the 15..but that's a pretty bad one from what I know. I also figured out that pin 20 gnd was not connected to 40 and 60 grounds...it was floating. If I read the diagnostic checks right..that's no bueno?
 

Timmy390

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Code 15 is bad......Check power to pin 1 and 20, 40, 60 pins to ground. 15 is generally a problem with power to the ECM.

You might try grounding the ECM case and see if it goes away....

Tim
 
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bmc69

bmc69

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Code 15 is bad......Check power to pin 1 and 20, 40, 60 pins to ground. 15 is generally a problem with power to the ECM.

You might try grounding the ECM case and see if it goes away....

Tim

Pin 1 power definitely good. Pin 20 not showing any continuity to pins 40 and 60.

The guy I recently bought the ECM from has already sent me another one...we'll see what I find with that. I already boxed the bad one up and it's on its way back to the guy.

I still have not found anything on the internets that would explain why the entire left bank of injectors wasn't firing..everything I can find on that deals with cases of "all or none" injector firing problems...often related to PIP failure. But I had the right bank four firing just fine..fine enough to even run the engine on just those four cylinders alone. Weird..
 

Broncobowsher

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Open the computer and look for burned traces, and swollen caps while in there.
At this point you don't have much to loose.
 
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bmc69

bmc69

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Open the computer and look for burned traces, and swollen caps while in there.
At this point you don't have much to loose.

I did ..partially. I didn't remove the board so I could inspect the hidden side of it. This ECM had been in to more than the snack box at the day care center.
 

Timmy390

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I don't know anything about the RJM harness but the stock 91-93 stang all the injectors get there "hot"/12 volts from the same place. Each has it's own hot wire.

The hot comes off the PCM power relay that supplies hot to the fuel pump among other things.

Check to see f the RJM harness ran one hot wire to the left bank of injectors and one wire the right. Could be the side not firing has a lose connection on the harness. Each injector has it's own ground pin to the ECM which is triggered by PIP to file the injector.

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

If one side is not firing it has to be the "hot" IMO

I also read where code 15 can be cause by a bad MAS sensor plug.

Tim
 
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bmc69

bmc69

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I don't know anything about the RJM harness but the stock 91-93 stang all the injectors get there "hot"/12 volts from the same place. Each has it's own hot wire.

The hot comes off the PCM power relay that supplies hot to the fuel pump among other things.

Check to see f the RJM harness ran one hot wire to the left bank of injectors and one wire the right. Could be the side not firing has a lose connection on the harness. Each injector has it's own ground pin to the ECM which is triggered by PIP to file the injector.


First thing I checked was 12V injector power. All 8 injectors are getting their 12V power. The harness is all one piece too..nothing separating any wire from the ECM main plug. I'm wondering if that "bad" pin 20 ground might be involved somehow...
 

Timmy390

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Pin 20 is the "case ground" if I recall correctly.......

Still that wouldn't just stop side of the injectors not to fire.

You can verify the injectors are not firing by using a Noid Light. When I was doing my EFI conversion I had an issue and bought a Noid Light tool kit at harbor Freight to help track it down. If I still lived in MD I would bring it over but it's a 16 hour drive now.......

Have you verified the injectors have fuel to them on that side?

Tim
 
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bmc69

bmc69

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Pin 20 is the "case ground" if I recall correctly.......

Still that wouldn't just stop side of the injectors not to fire.

You can verify the injectors are not firing by using a Noid Light. When I was doing my EFI conversion I had an issue and bought a Noid Light tool kit at harbor Freight to help track it down. If I still lived in MD I would bring it over but it's a 16 hour drive now.......

Have you verified the injectors have fuel to them on that side?

Tim
Huh..pin 20 did show ground to case..but not to 40 or 60. A clue? Common fuel rail to all 8 injectors...new walbro pump..pressure pops off on the shrader as expected.
 

Timmy390

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On the stock harness pin 40 and 60 are grounds.........

Have you looked for spark on that side with no injectors firing?

EFIGuy might have some insight on this issue. Very odd for one whole side not to fire....

Tim
 

albino

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I'm in process of starting an '89 Mustang 5.0 HO. Has new RJM harness installed. Yesterday I tried to start it with the A9L computer I had on hand, but it's throwing a code 15 and, worse, only firing the injectors on the passenger side cylinder bank. It does barely start and run on the pass side four cylinders...


My question is....can I plug an earlier ('87) speed-density ECM in and connect a vacuum line to the BAP sensor just to get some test run time in while awaiting another A9L ECM? I have a "DA1" or A1B ECM sitting here..couple other SD ECMs around somewhere too.

If you scroll down to post #2 in the link, this particular poster does an excellent job of explaining Code 15, and possible fixes.

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/89-stang-spittin-codes-15-and-67.793475/


FWIW, last year I spent close to 9 months tracking down an issue that was throwing a code with a brand new motor with a brand new original Ford Motorsports fuel injector wiring harness (when you could still get them 10 or so years ago), anyways...… the LAST thing I suspected to be a problem was my brand new wiring harness.


After going through my entire motor, and practically replacing every sensor, it came down to one last thing, the brand new harness.


Come to find out after tracing down wires, they pinned one of the plugs incorrectly at the factory.


Hope you find an easy fix, point is though, don't rule out the harness just because it's new.
 

DirtDonk

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That's why a buddy of mine and I bought a break-out box for those harnesses. And it can still come in handy (if I can find it!) now since we still install these older engines with new harnesses.

Thanks for the link. Been awhile since I've read up on these things.

Paul
 

EFI Guy

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I can't say I've ever seen only one bank firing injectors before. Knowing the layout of the transistors that control the injectors inside the computer, I can't even see how a single burnt trace could take out only one bank. I could see it taking out two on each bank though.

Your code 15 can point towards very unpredictable behavior though. 15 can be caused by 2 things. Power or ground interrupt to the PCM, or a corrupt rom (whether stock or aftermarket chip).

Basically, if you have power on pin 1 at all times, your grounds are good, you don't have an aftermarket chip, and you still get code 15, then the rom failed checksum.

The calibration (tune) is stored in the rom chip in the PCM. It's a bunch of zeros and ones at this level. When you turn the key on the computer does a quick self check, it adds up all of those ones and zeros based on a formula of their positions and comes up with a value (checksum). It compares this value to a value stored in the PCM of what the checksum should be. Let's say the stored value is 55555 and on the self check it calculates a value 55556, well, that's wrong so it throws code 15.

That one digit being off means that there is a one or zero that is out of place in the tune. It could be something you'd never realize like commanding 27 degrees of spark advance in a table instead of 28. Or, it could be something huge like the computer thinking it's a 4 cylinder instead of 8. When a PCM fails checksum, you just can't trust it anymore.

An aftermarket chip just replaces the entire rom with a custom one. It's common for aftermarket chips to throw code 15 because often the guy writing the tune doesn't recalculate the checksum and store the new value. This was very common in the early days, but even today depending on the software used by the tuner I still see it from time to time. Removing the chip returns the PCM back to the factory state and 15 usually goes away. I've also written chips with the correct checksum value and had them do just fine in a PCM with a corrupt rom.
 
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bmc69

bmc69

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Awesome feedback..thanks. When I opened the ECM I noticed that the board component layout varied in some respects from the several A9l pictures I found on line. That..and the fact the ECM had no label....just “a9l” written on it with a marker, leads me to believe it was a highly suspect piece. Oh well..it was cheaper than a certified used one...:p
 

OX1

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Late to this party, but I've gone back and forth between 86 HO SD,
87/88 HO SD and 88+ 5.0 HO mass air eec's (when engine was
bone stock 86 HO) with only adding/swapping a couple wires on my
86 Capri 5.0.

Biggest changes going from SD to MAF is pins 19, FPM, and pins 9 and
50, which are MAF RTN, and MAF. I would disconnect those 3 pins/wires
when going back to SD EEC, just in case.

You also have VSS on pins 3 and 6, which I never did hook up and the
pins on air pump diverter solenoid go from 11-32 and 51-38, but I tore
out that stuff and never had an issue (my 86 had no check engine light,
so no worries about it being on for emission codes).
 
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