Front Suspension Install - a few questions

[Fireball05]

Hello all,

I'm replacing the front suspension on my '76 and thought I'd post up a few photos and ask a few questions. Looking for some advice from the collective on how to do this as easily as possible, and make sure I don't mess anything up!

First of all, here is my plan:

Install 2.5" deaver coils, F250 shock towers, BDS shocks, adjustable trac-bar, and likely a drop pitman arm.

Clean and degrease and paint everything, install new front disc brake hard lines and outer lines, and drain and refill the Dana44.


Front end up on jack stands and ready to go:


Removed as one assembly, an intimidating tangle of dirty parts!


Ready to cut off the old stock shock mounts and install the F250 mounts. Thanks for the helpful write-up by Jon, will be following his instructions found here.


I've disassembled the axle and here are my questions:

1 - are the lower coil plates and retainer plates supposed to have a slight bow to them? When I removed them, both sides have a downward crown, like an unhappy face.

2 - should the driver side sway bar mount be welded to the axle? Mine was not, but the passenger side mount was. ?:? Didn't see any signs of the driver side having previously been welded, just strikes me as strange.

3 - Any tips on cleaning this thing?! Was probably going to roll it outside and pressure wash it, probably should take the discs apart and remove the rotors before doing so.

4 - Any tips on removing the old pitman arm? I've got a puller on it and cranked down on it a few times, and soaked it a few times, but it doesn't seem to want to budge.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Fireball05]

I goaded DirtDonk into posting some info in another thread where he had a nice write-up on rear leaf replacement. I'll copy it below for reference, and also include a few other quick links to potentially make this thread more helpful for those who may search and find it in the future.

Here is Paul's initial advice:

But before we do, Fireball05 if we haven't mentioned it yet, spray all the fasteners with pentrating lube now. Fronts are mostly not as rusted together as rears, but they can still benefit from some pre-lubing and cleaning.
When I did mine the first time, the exposed threads on the eight C-cap bolts were pretty crusted up with rust and thick dirt. A small wire brush and some lube helped, but removing them still involved a HUGE amount of squeaking (the bolts) and grunting (me) while they came out one quarter turn at a time. Not sure why they were so reluctant to come out, since the threads were fine when all was said and done. I thought they'd be royally chewed judging by the sound and difficulty with hand tools, but with a quick run-through with a tap they were in beautiful shape.
Salty roads most likely?

Anyway, shoot some lube on the cap bolts, the two (on each side) lower spring retainer bolts, the trackbar bolts (which are usually fine and clean for some reason) and the rear radius arm nuts.
Do it now and it won't be as much trouble this weekend when you get 'round to it.

Paul



Here is a neat trick from the TECH section on how to install the upper coil spring retainers. I'll be using this advice when the time comes: http://classicbroncos.com/tech/coil-spring-retainers

And here's some good info on the radius arm bolts, in case they need to be replaced. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123572&highlight=front+suspension

I got mine removed with the impact, and it took all it had. They looked fine upon removal, which was surprising since it took all 400ft-lbs of torque the impact had to offer to remove them. Will clean them up and reuse them, but it sounds like in the past others haven't been as lucky.

 

[73azbronco]

Do yourself a favor and once the old bolts are off, go to Ace hardware and buy some grade 8 replacements and use some anti seize. The old ones have also worn on the sides and will cause wobble.

 

[JIMS74]

3 - Any tips on cleaning this thing?! e z off oven cleaner

4 - Any tips on removing the old pitman arm? With pressure on the puller smack the side of the pitman arm with a hammer on the large dia where the splines come though.

If you put new c-bushings in. you may need longer bolts to start pulling them together. 9/16"-18 x 2 1/2" long. then replace 2 1/2" with the stock 2" that the shoulder is not to long on.

 

[quikdrummer]

Hello all,

1 - are the lower coil plates and retainer plates supposed to have a slight bow to them? When I removed them, both sides have a downward crown, like an unhappy face.



Thanks in advance for the help!

That sounds like they are beat up and could use replacing

 

[DirtDonk]

Way to make progress! And I thought I still had some time before this coming weekend. Guess you got the jump eh? Or you meant last weekend instead!

Like quikdrummer said, they're probably bent. There is in fact a bit of a slope to them, and they hang over the top of the radius arms slightly, but over the years they do take a beating (even just driving on the street) and usually need some TLC or replacement.

You can massage them and put them back on, or buy new ones. It doesn't really "hurt" anything to use bent ones, but the tendency of the coils to bow out after a lift can be greatly exaggerated by the bent cups. Up to you.

What was said about the pitman arm. But I like to use 2 hammers. Especially on the pitman arm because I don't like to put too much sideways persuasion on a steering box's sector shaft.
Two heavy hammers works great too. Just lay one up on the side of the pitman arm and hold it there. Take the other one and smack the big part of the arm opposite of the stationary hammer. With a little pressure from the puller, the hammer will have it's way with the arm pretty quickly.
A truly stuck on original arm might take a few extra turns of the puller's tensioner, but it will work itself off.

You can clean the daylights out of it even with the brakes installed. In fact, that way you clean the brakes too which makes them more fun to work on if you need to.

Havin' fun yet?

Paul

 

[Fireball05]

Just want to confirm that the lower coil cups should be perfectly flat. Perhaps my eyes deceive me, but it looks like there is a slight bow built into the new ones from the photos:
http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Coil_Spring_Cup_Lower_ea

The top of the radius arms where the cups mount is also a convex surface.

This photo of a new one especially doesn't look perfectly flat:

 

[Blue Bastard]

Mine had a "bow" in the middle. Reused them and everything is fine. I just cleaned them up shot some paint, good to go. My springs are nice and straight. the springs are not flat at the bottom either so the bow compensates for that i believe?

 

[Fireball05]

Thanks blue, I am hoping that is correct. Really don't want the springs to bow outward once installed. Apparently that isn't a functional problem but aesthetically, it looks pretty bad in my opinion.

Here are some photos of the radius arm, coil plate and retainer showing how convex they are.

What says the wise bronco collective, keep and reuse, or buy new ones?

 

[xcntrk]

The lower spring perches are definitely not flat. This presented a big problem for me personally as I use a Hellwig sway-bar in the front which has a mount that sandwiches between the perch and radius arm. I ended up using the HD Duff perches which are 1-piece (way easier to install with long springs) and perfectly flat on the bottom.

 

[savage]

I decided to use the Wild Horses Extreme coil cups on my 74.They are flat on the bottom,I did grind the top of the arm to have more surface area for the cups to sit on.

 

[Fireball05]

X, Savage - those setups both look nice!

I'm still unsure of whether my stock cups are bent/bowed more than they should be. Does anyone know? Not that I don't love to spend money on this thing, but for my 99% street driven rig, I don't think the heavy duty cups are needed.

Was able to get the front end mostly disassembled today and ready for cleaning. Cut off the aux shock mounts from the radius arm caps and cleaned those up. Also cleaned up the inner fender area and frame, so those areas are ready for a coat of POR. Tomorrow will work on cutting off the old shock mounts, both the OEM and the aux front mount. Looks like a long day with the grinder!

 

[hotrod351]

i have deaver springs in the back. i thought they only made leaf springs. but i have those in the back and duff coils in the front.

 

[hotrod351]

mine are also bowed. guess it doesnt hurt anything just looks like theres something wrong with them.

 

[savage]

Here is a picture of my old ones,and new set up.I think the old ones are designed to cradle the spring.

 

[Fireball05]

Savage - thanks for the photos. Very helpful. Looks like our coil cups have the same amount of bow in them, so perhaps a n=2 is enough to say that that is how they came from the factory!

Why did you decide to use the extreme cups? Do your springs still have the forward bow? Your post above, photo #3, shows a pretty decent forward bow, but that's before it was sitting back on the ground. Also, would I be correct in assuming you're using 7 degree c-bushings?

 

[savage]

I decided to go with the extreme cup for the ez of installing tall coils and for the coil to be able to flex more.I am not sure what degree my c bushings are it has always track fine.Today I installed adjustable drop brackets which took most of the forward lean out.

 

[xcntrk]

I decided to go with the extreme cup for the ez of installing tall coils

They're worth it for that point alone. The OE 2-piece cups are a major PITA with long coils. Depending on the spring, the individual coils may be too close together to get any tools in-between which means you end up using 24" of socket extensions all the way down the inside of the coil trying to get the installation bolts to line up through both pieces of spring plate and into the radius arms. It sucks...

In comparison, the HD cups install on the radius arms without the spring, then when you're ready you simply thread/twist the spring into the retainer on the cup and finish the top install - done. Makes removing/installing your springs a piece of cake!

 

[DirtDonk]

Fireball, just fyi, even if your cups were perfectly formed as they were from the factory, you would still get a bowed spring because your radius arms are at a steeper angle than before the lift. If the cups are bent, it's just worse.

With stock radius arms, the only ways I can think of to keep springs from bowing from a lift is to either use drop brackets at the rear frame ends, or add tapered shims between the arm and the cup.

And yes, the factory cups were formed into some odd shapes to straddle the top of the arms/caps.
It's hard to say by pics unfortunately. Even with the visual aids you added of the straight edge and multiple angles, a small extra deformation would be hard to detect because of the odd forms they have right from the factory.
If I had been just to guess from your pics, I would have said that there was some additional "forming" done over the years to yours. They look a little more bent than I remember. But it's been awhile since I've had a stock set in my hand actually, so I'm not necessarily the best judge.

I agree about the easier install xcntrk, but you can do that screw-in thing with stock cups too. Thread the bolts part of the way in, which leaves the retainer loose in the cup.
You still have to reach in there to finish tightening them of course, but it's WAY easier than just starting the bolts after the springs are installed.
Been there before!

Paul

 

[Blue Bastard]

I agree about the easier install xcntrk, but you can do that screw-in thing with stock cups too. Thread the bolts part of the way in, which leaves the retainer loose in the cup.
You still have to reach in there to finish tightening them of course, but it's WAY easier than just starting the bolts after the springs are installed.
Been there before!

Paul

X 2....This was the way my instructor (thebroncoranch) had me do it. was quite easy. I was then able to finish tightening with a speed wrench.