Front Suspension Install - a few questions

[DirtDonk]

I forgot to mention too, that more and more people are just installing studs into the arms, then using nuts to do the final fastening.
I don't know if it's easier, faster, better, or just cooler (different-wise), but it kind of makes sense in that you would not have to fish through two plates for the holes.

This was probably a huge improvement over trying to fish a bolt through a spring, but I'm not sure if it's a distinct advantage or not when using the pre-bolting method above.
If someone's done it both ways (or all three ways), let us know what you think about it.

Paul

 

[Fireball05]

Fireball, just fyi, even if your cups were perfectly formed as they were from the factory, you would still get a bowed spring because your radius arms are at a steeper angle than before the lift. If the cups are bent, it's just worse.


Paul

Thanks for the responses. Do the extreme/heavy duty cups help eliminate this bowing? I would guess not, since they appear to be flat, but just wanted to make sure.

 

[Fireball05]

A few hours work, 2 cans of EZ off, a pressure washer, a wire brush, drill and wire wheel and the crud cutter and I was able to get it looking pretty good:



Still no luck with the pitman arm. It's been bathing in penetrating oil for almost a week now. Gave it lots of smacks all around the circumference using one and two hammers. Any more ideas? Get a bigger puller? Would use heat, but scared of damaging seal to steering box. Could start cutting away at it with the grinder?

 

[Blue Bastard]

Impact on the puller?

 

[NM_outdoors]

My $.02 is that the stock coil cups work ok with stock radius arms but my new duff arms have a larger (machined) flat on top that causes the stock cups to tilt (due to their non-flat contour) and bow the springs. Especially on the driver side. In the process of fabbing some billet stainless cups and experimenting with mounting locations to minimize spring bow. Anyone know why the stock cup holes are offset (1/2"? away from knuckles and the aftermarket (bronco vendor) cups look like they're on center?

 

[Master Chief]

Any more ideas? Get a bigger puller?

Most auto parts stores carry pitman arm pullers. They are about 20 bucks and designed for the job. Get it put in place and torqued on with an impact wrench, then a few smacks of a hammer and you should be in business.

I attached a photo of the tool you are looking for.

Roger

 

[Fireball05]

Impact on the puller?

I've got that little puller torqued pretty good. Afraid anymore and it will break. I'll have a wander over to the part store today to see if they have something a little stronger and more suited to the task.

Thanks again for all the input, lots of good info here.

 

[Glass Pony]

Fireball,
I'm not sure if you have enough room in between the puller and the floor but torque the puller up real good then smack the end of the puller jack screw with a 4 lb maul.

 

[Izzy]

Most auto parts stores carry pitman arm pullers. They are about 20 bucks and designed for the job. Get it put in place and torqued on with an impact wrench, then a few smacks of a hammer and you should be in business.

I attached a photo of the tool you are looking for.

Roger

X2 here...Right tool for the right job. Go to the auto parts store and rent the proper pitman arm puller and avoid any damage to tools or injury to yourself. Autozone and Orielly's have them and rent for free.

 

[xcntrk]

Either way when that pitman arm does finally let go, it's going to unleash with a furry! That 3-jaw puller just makes it more dramatic with the arms swinging every which way as it comes flying off there.

I agree with the other, BFH never fails!

 

[Fireball05]

I've tried the B-est F-ing H I've got and no luck yet. Maybe it's my girlie swing that's keeping me from success.

Got a pitman arm puller from Advanced and will put that on and give it a try.

BTW, if you look closely at the picture above, you'll see the nut still on the end. Safety first!

 

[DirtDonk]

...Do the extreme/heavy duty cups help eliminate this bowing? I would guess not, since they appear to be flat, but just wanted to make sure.

Good question. In fact I had thought originally that this feature would be part of the new part, since bowing has been one of the big complaints that has been with us since the first lift kits were installed in the sixties!
But I'm not sure that, other than two design features, there is any truly built-in "anti tilt" geometry.
Those features are:
1. The now flat mounting surface is necessarily helpful when compared to a crushed original set. Very noticeable difference in those cases.
If the original was in perfect shape however, I'm not sure there is any change in base angle.
Easy to measure though. Anyone have both sets handy that they could compare? I'll try to do that on Monday as well.

2. The actual clamp "loop" is a shorter section that's now directly on the side of the cup, at roughly perpendicular angles to the rotation of the arm. Rather than having any front or rear bias to hold the spring into a twist.
This "might" allow the spring wire some leeway to rotate when the radius arm is at a different angle.
Kind of a limited benefit I would say, since the upper pigtail is still tightly clamped and the lower can only move so much before the spring bow presents itself. But it's something anyway.

I think we should at least offer an "enhanced angle" base myself, but am not sure what's actually built-in to the current model, and what's not.
After I verify it myself, I'll let you know.


And for those wondering, the elongated mounting hole for fitting to either the regular EB arms, or those from the full-size trucks with wider spacing. But a side benefit of that is that the longer hole can possibly act like a drain to keep water from building up inside the fully welded cup. Whenever the uneven surfaces will allow that at least.
If you're in a particularly wet part of the world then, it wouldn't hurt to see if there is some drainage available.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

...Anyone know why the stock cup holes are offset (1/2"? away from knuckles and the aftermarket (bronco vendor) cups look like they're on center?

Another really good question.
I can tell you why the originals have an offset, but don't know why the aftermarket ones don't.
The offset gives an outward bias of the cup to clear the inner components, but in so doing, also helps to align more directly with the spring's upper tower. Not sure why you would not want that to continue.

It's possible that our cups are slightly wider diameter too, which would alleviate at least some of that discrepancy, but that's strictly assumption on my part, since I'm not there to measure.
Another question to check on. And to ask those more knowledgeable than me when they get back from wheeling around the country.
Let you know after Monday.

Paul

 

[savage]

Firerball05,I notice with the stock cups I got bowing in two directions forward and outwards.With the extreme cups I got just forward bowing,until I put my drop brackets on then most of the bow was gone.

 

[Crawdad]

I may be a lil late to the game here but I too had problems pulling the old pitman arm off. I finally got one of this hand held acetyl torch cans and applied some, not a lot, of heat only to pitman arm. I applied heat, wrenched a lil, applied heat and then BAM! It released it furry and scared the tar dickens out of me. Put a wet cold rag on the lower shaft just above were i applied heat, never really got too hot as the wet rag didn't sizzle! Good luck!

 

[Fireball05]

Sorry I forgot to update this. The rented puller from Advanced did the trick. Had to torque it down with the breaker bar, then a few smacks with the BFH and as others have said, parts came flying across the garage floor!

Just the puller actually, I had the nut still on the box shaft to hold the pitman arm in place, but it's still a little disconcerting with loud noises and stuff flying around.

 

[Blue Bastard]

Sounds like a gun shot when those suckers break loose! scared the @#$% out of me the first time.

 

[surfer-b]

I have one of these snap-on pitman arm removers, they are worth the money if you can find one on ebay. Never had any trouble removing a pitman arm and there is no pressure on the shaft bearings.

 

[NM_outdoors]

I can tell you why the originals have an offset, but don't know why the aftermarket ones don't.
The offset gives an outward bias of the cup to clear the inner components, but in so doing, also helps to align more directly with the spring's upper tower. Not sure why you would not want that to continue.

Paul

Makes sense Paul. The lack of offset in the aftermarket cups may be to maintain symmetry for ease of manufacturing/interchangeability from left to right side? I drilled both hole patterns and ended up using the (original) 1/2" offset. My rig is down to frame/suspension only so I still have some front to back bow since it's not at ride height yet. No side bow anymore and both sides look the same.

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks for bringing it back up NM. I forgot to update the next day, but our cups are definitely a tad wider in diameter as well, so don't seem to really cause any misalignment issues on either side that I can see.
Checked a couple out that were installed on rigs at the shop and couldn't detect anything amiss.

Good guaranteed cure on your part. How far off did you have to drill the holes? Did they end up as separate holes? Or did you basically just widen the existing holes?

Paul