Green/Red Wire from Voltage Reg.

[Crainbow243]

I have been installing a Holley Sniper EFI and in doing so I have been trimming/re-routing some really poor wiring by the previous owner or before. While doing this I discovered a Green/Red wire coming from the voltage regulator that is not connected to anything... I checked all diagrams and looked at all harnesses but I cant seem to figure out where it goes. Anyone have any idea? My bronco was in running condition before the EFI install so I am assuming it was previously hooked up.

Here is a picture of it:

and

 

[Crainbow243]

Side note, does anyone know off the top of their head which input to the starter solenoid does what?

Brown is?

Red/Blue is?

Thanks

 

[surfer-b]

The grn / red comes from the run position on the igniton switch, should be hooked to the voltage reg. The rd/blu comes from the start side of the ignition switch, it triggers the starter solinoid. The brn is for a full 12 volts in the start position for the coil

 

[surfer-b]

The rd/blu, brn are in the correct places in the pic

 

[Crainbow243]

So green/red is hooked into the voltage regulator and nothing else. Where should it be going?

When should the two to the starter solenoid have 12v? Only on start?

 

[DirtDonk]

Can you remove the connector from the regulator and post up a pic of it clear of the other stuff?
As was said, the Green w/red wire "normally" comes from the ignition switch and when the key is ON (but not in ACC) sends 12v to the regulator. It actually powers up the regulator, so to speak. But not in your case it seems.
But it looks like yours might be the wrong connector for a Bronco and the wire in question is in the position it would be on a car with an indicator light. The ammeter equipped Fords use a different setup.
What color wire is next to the Orange wire? Black, or White w/black by any chance?
In your case, the Green w/red might go unused.

As surfer-b said, the Red w/blue wire on the starter relay/solenoid comes from the ignition switch and is what cranks the starter.
It runs from the ignition switch and sends 12v to the starter relay only when the key is in the START position.

The Brown wire also gets power only in START, but it's sending an additional amount of power to the ignition coil when the starter is cranking. The other end of the Brown wire is spliced into the Red w/green wire at the firewall connector to the coil.
If you flip them around the starter will crank as soon as you turn the key to ON. This is because the Brown wire is connected to the ignition coil and will feed back to the relay.

To reiterate:
1. The Green w/red wire (not yours obviously, but normally on a Bronco) AND the Red w/green wire are spliced together at the ignition switch. They're on the same connector at the back of the switch and are hot in both START and ON.

2. The Brown wire is hot in both START and ON, but it gets it's power from the relay, not the ignition switch.

3. The regulator should have only three positions of the connector filled. The "I" position is blank on ours and only the "F" the "S" and the "A" positions have wires.
The F is the field wire and is Orange. It runs straight to the FLD terminal on the back of the alternator.
The S is supposed to be the Green w/red wire and is hot with the key in ON only.
The A is usually two separate Yellow wires. One is powered hot all the time and is your sensing wire. The other is a short bit that runs to a radio noise suppressor that is bolted to the side of the regulator.

4. The strange black and silver thingy to the left of the starter relay is your horn relay that was found on '74 and later EB's. The Yellow wire from that attaches to the starter relay under the battery cable on the large stud.

5. No idea what the small dark Blue wire does. Where does it lead to on the engine?

6. The light Blue wire that's spliced to the large gauge Black wire on the positive side of the battery is obviously hot all the time. Does it have anything crimped to it, or is that blue crimp connector open on the other end?

7. And speaking of your positive battery cable... Replace it. It's crap and falling apart in front of your very eyes and will lead to other issues in the near future.
Your computer is going to hate you unless you do.

8. And you're missing a body ground. Add one now. Then add a few more in strategic locations.
I'm sure you've seen the discussions of adding grounds. So if you have not yet, make sure you do. Or again, your computer is going to hate you and cause you to pull your hair out.

You're installing a modern electronic fuel injection setup. You really need more sorting of the old stuff. You said you're cleaning up the old PO wiring, and that's a good thing. What's just in the shots above looks like it's just a problem waiting to happen. Especially when combined with an electronically controlled fuel system.
Will you be running your ignition through the computer too? Or just the fuel delivery?

So there is still much to be sorted out.
Good luck!

Paul

 

[Crainbow243]

Can you remove the connector from the regulator and post up a pic of it clear of the other stuff?

Here is a picture of the voltage regulator (thin blue wire is Sniper to fuel pump wire):

and

As was said, the Green w/red wire "normally" comes from the ignition switch and when the key is ON (but not in ACC) sends 12v to the regulator. It actually powers up the regulator, so to speak. But not in your case it seems.
But it looks like yours might be the wrong connector for a Bronco and the wire in question is in the position it would be on a car with an indicator light. The ammeter equipped Fords use a different setup.

Is there a way to test if it is powering up my voltmeter properly without the engine (alternator) running?

Funny you mention ammeter equipped... I have an ammeter, but it appears aftermarket... Is it? (it did not work when running, but did have two very large wire running to it. One from the battery and one to the voltage regulator it appears, I assumed that he added it after the fact and interrupted the alternator to voltage regulator connection to detect amperage from alternator...)

Side note the wire nuts are not mine, I would never use wire nuts on a cars electrical system. There are a lot of aftermarket style connections and wiring done to this bronco which I am trying to clean up/repair/remove. I have eliminated most of the wire nuts and added soldered connections when possible.

To reiterate:
1. The Green w/red wire (not yours obviously, but normally on a Bronco) AND the Red w/green wire are spliced together at the ignition switch. They're on the same connector at the back of the switch and are hot in both START and ON.

Would this (red/green from ignition switch) be a good place to connect the switched 12v to my Sniper EFI? I have not located a good 12v switched source yet.

5. No idea what the small dark Blue wire does. Where does it lead to on the engine?

Its an added ground to ground the starter solenoid.

6. The light Blue wire that's spliced to the large gauge Black wire on the positive side of the battery is obviously hot all the time. Does it have anything crimped to it, or is that blue crimp connector open on the other end?

It goes to a larger blackish wire that goes to the voltage regulator.

7. And speaking of your positive battery cable... Replace it. It's crap and falling apart in front of your very eyes and will lead to other issues in the near future.
Your computer is going to hate you unless you do.

8. And you're missing a body ground. Add one now. Then add a few more in strategic locations.
I'm sure you've seen the discussions of adding grounds. So if you have not yet, make sure you do. Or again, your computer is going to hate you and cause you to pull your hair out.

You're installing a modern electronic fuel injection setup. You really need more sorting of the old stuff. You said you're cleaning up the old PO wiring, and that's a good thing. What's just in the shots above looks like it's just a problem waiting to happen. Especially when combined with an electronically controlled fuel system.
Will you be running your ignition through the computer too? Or just the fuel delivery?

Yeah I added a few ground from the battery to engine ground, but I plan to add a few more and test around. I defiantly know the importance of good grounds. Agreed, replacing the positive terminal is in the plans and a good idea.

I am installing the Hyperspark CDI, Coil, and Distributor cap also to wire into the Sniper EFI. That is why I am able to clean up a lot of the random wires in the engine bay. The previous owner had a lot of non-important splices into important things such as the coil power supply, which is now eliminated (Hyperspark Coil is powered from CDI directly which is connected directly to battery and Sniper EFI).

I am spending a lot of time cleaning up the electronics that the previous owner has added or altered, but its hard to understand what can and cant be eliminated when adding a completely new ignition system that is self contained. The only connection to the Sniper/Hyperspark from the original wiring is 12v constant, ground, and 12v switched, the rest is self contained in the Sniper/Hyperspark system. However I fear that removing some of the old ignition wiring may result in unknown electronic gremlins down the road.

 

[DirtDonk]

Here is a picture of the voltage regulator (thin blue wire is Sniper to fuel pump wire):

As suspected, that's not an original Bronco regulator connector/harness.
I've seen the ones like yours, with two Orange wires for some reason, but not in a long time. As long as the wires are connected as they should be though, your alternator should charge just fine.

If you're feeling bolt and adventurous though (and don't mind working with the visible grease) you could always re-orient the wires as they should be. Unfortunately that would mean re-doing some of your obviously new connections. So I would likely just leave it and get rid of the Green w/red wire for now. Using a special tool or pick you should be able to unclip the contact from the plastic housing and remove the wire entirely.
If you decide to go for it, you leave the first Orange wire and the third Yellow wires alone, and replace the second one with the Green w/red. Ending up with a blank spot in the fourth position.

Is there a way to test if it is powering up my voltmeter properly without the engine (alternator) running?

Not sure I understand. What volt-meter? Do you have a volt-meter in the original dash location? Or are you talking about an ammeter? If so, no there is no way to test your alternator's output without it spinning.
If you're talking about an actual voltmeter though, the alternator is not usually the source of the voltmeter wiring anyway. Not directly anyway.
Connect any voltmeters to wiring under the dash that is switched so it's not on all the time.

Funny you mention ammeter equipped... I have an ammeter, but it appears aftermarket... Is it?

Yes. Anything not inside the large round gauge cluster to the left of the steering wheel is always aftermarket.
Anything mounted under the dash is aftermarket.
Any ammeter that is a "direct-read" style (with two studs where the wires mount) is aftermarket. The factory ammeter has the same 60a range, but is an "inductive-read" style, with a metal loop on the back where the wire passes through.
It's passive, rather than hard-wired. Much safer!

(it did not work when running, but did have two very large wire running to it. One from the battery and one to the voltage regulator it appears, I assumed that he added it after the fact and interrupted the alternator to voltage regulator connection to detect amperage from alternator...)

Sounds like it. Get rid of it in my opinion. Were the two wires Black w/yellow?
Generally that type of ammeter does interrupt the flow, but not from the regulator. It's between the battery and the alternator. No connection to the regulator.
But one that uses a "shunt" to sample it's readings might use the voltage regulator. I don't know, but usually the shunted ones are the higher reading gauges. For example an 80a, 90a, or 100a or higher reading gauge.

Would this (red/green from ignition switch) be a good place to connect the switched 12v to my Sniper EFI? I have not located a good 12v switched source yet.

Maybe. Maybe not...
It sounds like you need it to power quite a few things. If that's the case, it's not up to it alone and should be used to trigger a relay instead, that has the capacity to power up all the accessories you're wanting it to control. Ignition, EFI, fuel pump, etc.

Its an added ground to ground the starter solenoid.

Cool. Good place to add an additional ground.
You should have a good supply of 10ga and 12ga and maybe even 14ga Black wire for your grounds. You will end up using a lot of it and it's then obviously a ground.
I know you've already done much of it, so maybe not this project. And besides, YOU know where the wires are... But it would help anyone that ever needs to work on your rig if they were Black.
Figure you knew that, but wanted to mention it anyway.

It goes to a larger blackish wire that goes to the voltage regulator.

That would be your sensing wire and that's how the regulator knows how much the alternator should put out. Keep it in good shape.
FYI though, most of these wires do not need to be large gauge heavy wires. Very little current is being carried through them. But no reason at this point to change anything. Just for future reference.

Yeah I added a few ground from the battery to engine ground, but I plan to add a few more and test around. I defiantly know the importance of good grounds.

I hate to change things in mid-stride here, but that is not the optimal place for your grounds. It's not bad to have a central source, and run others to it as a semi-direct path to the battery. But mounting it to the old alternator/air pump bracket is not the best location.
First, the farther away from the actual engine block, the more susceptible it is to reduced efficiency through connections that may get painted some day, and threads and bolts that may rust (if they are not already) and create resistance.
Your main battery ground cable should be directly to the engine block if that is available (which it usually is on our engines) and the closer you put it to the starter motor the better as well. Since the starter is the main drain on almost any vehicle, the closer you get the ground the better.

When you're adding grounds, add as many to the body as you can to keep all the electrical systems happy. Between the engine and firewall is a good spot.
If moving the current position of the main cable means you'll have to re-do all those others, well, you can keep it there for now. But if it was me I'd move it.
A side benefit, unless you're going to restore the smog pump, would be to remove that bracket completely and replace it with the basic alternator brackets that all non-pump equipped Broncos used. Simpler, easier to adjust and higher up for better access.

One of those small grounds should run between the alternator case and the voltage regulator by the way. You may already have one, but in case you don't that's another one to add.

I am installing the Hyperspark CDI, Coil, and Distributor cap also to wire into the Sniper EFI. That is why I am able to clean up a lot of the random wires in the engine bay. The previous owner had a lot of non-important splices into important things such as the coil power supply, which is now eliminated (Hyperspark Coil is powered from CDI directly which is connected directly to battery and Sniper EFI).

Where are you sourcing your switched power for the ignition? Or does that rely on the EFI computer too?
Do you still have easy access to the Red w/green wire? Remember that this is a resistor wire too, so is not designed to flow 12v at higher current levels. So if you use it as a source of power in ON and START, you will need it to power a relay.

I am spending a lot of time cleaning up the electronics that the previous owner has added or altered, but its hard to understand what can and cant be eliminated when adding a completely new ignition system that is self contained.

Since your wiring is still basically stock (minus all the PO mods) then anything that is in the original wiring diagrams regarding the alternator/charging system is to be left intact.
Pretty much everything in the book must remain, except in as much as you need to modify it now to fit your EFI needs.

The only connection to the Sniper/Hyperspark from the original wiring is 12v constant, ground, and 12v switched, the rest is self contained in the Sniper/Hyperspark system. However I fear that removing some of the old ignition wiring may result in unknown electronic gremlins down the road.

Yes it might. Especially given the hack job that's been done to it previously. But as you clean things up you should be able to see what's stock and what's been added.
One critical thing you need to know, wherever you follow that large Black w/yellow wire, check it out and make sure it's in one piece. It's the main power flow throughout the entire vehicle. Period.
If it's cut or disconnected, nothing works.
The only exception is if you re-wire the charging system to accommodate a more powerful alternator.

Still lots to do it looks like. And still lots to learn on your part as you go.
An EFI setup is not really plug-n-play when you have to build the supply chain from scratch like you're doing. Sure, the new wiring that comes with the computer is simple, but you still need to make sure your original setup is working at 100% effectiveness.

I'm sure you've seen it here time and time again, but probably 80% of EFI installation issues are due to faulty, or just old and tired factory wiring. Add enough hacks to the system, and it's just that much harder to track down the gremlins.
You're off to a good start. Just still lots more to do.

Paul

 

[Crainbow243]

As suspected, that's not an original Bronco regulator connector/harness.
I've seen the ones like yours, with two Orange wires for some reason, but not in a long time. As long as the wires are connected as they should be though, your alternator should charge just fine.

Well it looks like they are kind of iffy wiring at the regulator, but Ill double check all of them to be sure.

If you're feeling bolt and adventurous though (and don't mind working with the visible grease) you could always re-orient the wires as they should be. Unfortunately that would mean re-doing some of your obviously new connections. So I would likely just leave it and get rid of the Green w/red wire for now. Using a special tool or pick you should be able to unclip the contact from the plastic housing and remove the wire entirely.
If you decide to go for it, you leave the first Orange wire and the third Yellow wires alone, and replace the second one with the Green w/red. Ending up with a blank spot in the fourth position.

What is the difference between 3rd and 4th position?

Not sure I understand. What volt-meter?

I miss-typed that. Meant to be voltage regulator. Not volt-meter.

Yes. Anything not inside the large round gauge cluster to the left of the steering wheel is always aftermarket.
Anything mounted under the dash is aftermarket.
Any ammeter that is a "direct-read" style (with two studs where the wires mount) is aftermarket. The factory ammeter has the same 60a range, but is an "inductive-read" style, with a metal loop on the back where the wire passes through.
It's passive, rather than hard-wired. Much safer!

Sounds like it. Get rid of it in my opinion. Were the two wires Black w/yellow?
Generally that type of ammeter does interrupt the flow, but not from the regulator. It's between the battery and the alternator. No connection to the regulator.
But one that uses a "shunt" to sample it's readings might use the voltage regulator. I don't know, but usually the shunted ones are the higher reading gauges. For example an 80a, 90a, or 100a or higher reading gauge.

Yeah that is what I was thinking. I have used shunt style ammeters before. Seemed very odd to run that large of a wire all the way to the center of the dash just to check amperage. That being said I deleted the wires. It had previously gone from battery - ammeter - voltage regulator and now I just eliminated a lot of the wire and connected battery directly to voltage regulator (the blue connector on the positive battery terminal). That would be the correct original wiring method, correct? well now that you say that... maybe that is why it didn't work. He had it between battery and voltage regulator.

Could you confirm white wires go into the voltage regulator and where they go to from there? I think I need to double check alternator connections also.

Maybe. Maybe not...
It sounds like you need it to power quite a few things. If that's the case, it's not up to it alone and should be used to trigger a relay instead, that has the capacity to power up all the accessories you're wanting it to control. Ignition, EFI, fuel pump, etc.

I am pretty sure it is acting as a trigger relay. Both the Sniper EFI and Hyperspark CDI have direct 12v constant connections (direct to battery) and then a 12v switched wire also. I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that the switched 12v should have minimal draw on it and only acts as a signal wire.

Your main battery ground cable should be directly to the engine block if that is available (which it usually is on our engines) and the closer you put it to the starter motor the better as well. Since the starter is the main drain on almost any vehicle, the closer you get the ground the better.

When you're adding grounds, add as many to the body as you can to keep all the electrical systems happy. Between the engine and firewall is a good spot.
If moving the current position of the main cable means you'll have to re-do all those others, well, you can keep it there for now. But if it was me I'd move it.
A side benefit, unless you're going to restore the smog pump, would be to remove that bracket completely and replace it with the basic alternator brackets that all non-pump equipped Broncos used. Simpler, easier to adjust and higher up for better access.

One of those small grounds should run between the alternator case and the voltage regulator by the way. You may already have one, but in case you don't that's another one to add.

I plan on upgrading grounds, just need to get some longer heavy gauge wire first. I think you are spot on that adding a lot of small gauge (black wire) grounds would really eliminate a lot of future issues and headaches, especially with a rusty body and fiberglass front end.

Where are you sourcing your switched power for the ignition? Or does that rely on the EFI computer too?
Do you still have easy access to the Red w/green wire? Remember that this is a resistor wire too, so is not designed to flow 12v at higher current levels. So if you use it as a source of power in ON and START, you will need it to power a relay.

I am looking for a source 12v switch line still and once a good one is located all three systems will use it (CDI, EFI, and Distributor), but all have separate 12v constant inputs.

Yes it might. Especially given the hack job that's been done to it previously. But as you clean things up you should be able to see what's stock and what's been added.
One critical thing you need to know, wherever you follow that large Black w/yellow wire, check it out and make sure it's in one piece. It's the main power flow throughout the entire vehicle. Period.
If it's cut or disconnected, nothing works.
The only exception is if you re-wire the charging system to accommodate a more powerful alternator.

Good to know, Ill inspect it as much as I can. I need to take pictures of some old ignition wires that I removed as there were not connected to anything anymore. Just want to verify they are not essential and will not prevent any other functions.

Still lots to do it looks like. And still lots to learn on your part as you go.
An EFI setup is not really plug-n-play when you have to build the supply chain from scratch like you're doing. Sure, the new wiring that comes with the computer is simple, but you still need to make sure your original setup is working at 100% effectiveness.

I'm sure you've seen it here time and time again, but probably 80% of EFI installation issues are due to faulty, or just old and tired factory wiring. Add enough hacks to the system, and it's just that much harder to track down the gremlins.
You're off to a good start. Just still lots more to do.

Yeah I agree and I am well away of the headache caused by electrical gremlins. I wanted to keep this system as separate from any potentially faulty wiring as much as I could, which is partially why I paid up for the whole hyperspark ignition system.

Ill upload those pictures of eliminate wires soon.

Just wanted to say thank you so much for your help on this! I felt lost for a bit after digging into the wiring and you have been more than helpful getting me back on track!

 

[DirtDonk]

Well it looks like they are kind of iffy wiring at the regulator, but Ill double check all of them to be sure.

Not so bad really. Just the wrong color in one position, and an extra wire hanging out in the wind.
It'll get there soon enough.

What is the difference between 3rd and 4th position?

In function? Well, the third position is always the sensing wire. Yellow to the battery. And the fourth position is either an indicator or goes unused.
There is no fourth position in Bronco wiring. That's for vehicles with an indicator lamp on the dash instead of an ammeter.
Truthfully, I'm not really sure why Ford felt they needed to change the wiring at the regulator for the different systems, but it works both ways, so I never questioned it.

The original letters you might see embossed in the connector and/or the lock plate on the regulator are "FSAI" and they stand for Field, Stator, Armature and Indicator respectively.
For our purposes, to make them easier to remember I changed those to Field, Switched and Always. With the fourth position being blank.

So to your question below, the regulator wiring goes like this:
1. F = Field. Orange wire to the FLD post on the back of the alternator.
2. S = Switched. Green w/red wire to the ignition switch.
3. A = Always. Yellow wire semi-directly to the battery. Usually spliced to the Black w/yellow charge wire under the tape, but can sometimes be found (on early models I think?) as part of the ring connector at the starter relay along with the Black wire. The Yellow wire we see on some Broncos ('74 through '77) that is separate on it's own connector is for the horn relay.

Yeah that is what I was thinking. I have used shunt style ammeters before. Seemed very odd to run that large of a wire all the way to the center of the dash just to check amperage.

And dangerous. All it takes is a failed gauge, perhaps from too much current, and you can have a serious meltdown and fire under the dash.
Ford's idea of using an inductive loop was much safer and way more reliable in getting a reading too.
But it still had a large gauge power feed running through the entire dash area that really was not needed other than for the ammeter, so in other vehicles that was completely eliminated and replaced with a volt-meter.

I think I need to double check alternator connections also.

Pretty straightforward and should look like this:
1. BAT (largest post/stud with Red insulator) Large 10ga Black w/yellow wire.
2. FLD (next largest with orange or black insulator). Orange wire directly from the regulator.
3. STA (stud with black or white insulator) White w/black stripe wire runs to the carburetor choke. You will no longer need this wire as it serves no function with EFI.
4. GRD (black (sometimes with red stripe) small wire) can run from any other stud or screw on the body of the alternator, directly to one of the attaching screws holding the voltage regulator to the truck body.

Do you still have the original wiring in it's large rubber/plastic strain relief? If so, the ground wire is usually internally connected to the metal ring that is a mounting point. Simply slip it over one of the ground studs on the back of the alternator and secure it with a nut.
If you don't have that, it's very easy to create your own ground circuit to the regulator.

But from all that, you can see why updating to an internally regulated alternator is high on so many people's list. Fewer wires, way fewer connections, fewer questions.

I am pretty sure it is acting as a trigger relay. Both the Sniper EFI and Hyperspark CDI have direct 12v constant connections (direct to battery) and then a 12v switched wire also. I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that the switched 12v should have minimal draw on it and only acts as a signal wire.

You are probably correct, but I would look for that detail in the instruction book, or call the manufacturer to see how much current and voltage is needed.
The stock ignition switch should not be overworked, and their setup may be looking for full voltage.
Never hurts to double check.

I am looking for a source 12v switch line still and once a good one is located all three systems will use it (CDI, EFI, and Distributor), but all have separate 12v constant inputs.

You can check with a meter to see if your ACC stud on the back of the ignition switch has power in both ON and START. If so, then you can use it as your source.
If not, you will need to tap into the Green w/red and Red w/green wires from the switch.
Those circuits on early models were just the two wires. On later trucks, especially those with Dura Spark ignition systems, the Red w/green wire was run to the ignition module too, so would probably be the best source for your needs.

Did you mention what year your Bronco is? I was thinking it's a '74 but I don't see where you said that. If it's a '74 though, but a FED truck that did not have Dura Spark, the additional Red w/green wire may still be in the harness somewhere because that's the year they first came out with electronic ignitions in CA equipped Broncos.

I need to take pictures of some old ignition wires that I removed as there were not connected to anything anymore. Just want to verify they are not essential and will not prevent any other functions.

Definitely take some more pics. We might just find your perfect 12v source in the unused stuff.

Hang in there.

Paul

 

[Crainbow243]

You can check with a meter to see if your ACC stud on the back of the ignition switch has power in both ON and START. If so, then you can use it as your source.
If not, you will need to tap into the Green w/red and Red w/green wires from the switch.
Those circuits on early models were just the two wires. On later trucks, especially those with Dura Spark ignition systems, the Red w/green wire was run to the ignition module too, so would probably be the best source for your needs.

I think my ignition switch was one of the poor re-wiring jobs. All the wires coming out of it are orange... Ill do some testing though

The bronco is a 1975.


So here are some pictures of the wiring that I eliminated:

From this connector coming through the firewall I removed the following wires that were no longer connected to anything in the engine bay (once old distributor and coil were removed):

From what you can see is there any negative effect to removing these wires? They all came through the driver side of the firewall with those connections and were either not connected to anything or were connected to the removed coil or distributor.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, lots of negative effects. But nothing you can't redo if you need to. Just a shame to strip half of a stock circuit, only to re-connect your own stuff to make the original circuit work again.

Some of that stuff you might not need, but some you might.
For example, what are you doing for your water temp and oil pressure gauges? What are you going to do for your backup lamps? Automatic transmission? What about the neutral safety switch. Actually looks like you have a manual, since I see that switch harness in there as well.
All of that is mixed in with what you removed.

If the Orange wires are decently done and are marked so you know what they are, you can leave it that way if you want. If you want to start over with something resembling stock you can use something like this: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Ignition-Switch-Socket-Pigtail/Bronco_Wiring_Harness as they are still available in factory colors.

Obviously you're dealing with a big mess left by the PO, but you're (probably by necessity at this point) digging into it willy nilly too. So don't throw anything away just yet, 'cause you might need it!

Paul

 

[Crainbow243]

Yes, lots of negative effects. But nothing you can't redo if you need to. Just a shame to strip half of a stock circuit, only to re-connect your own stuff to make the original circuit work again.

Some of that stuff you might not need, but some you might.
For example, what are you doing for your water temp and oil pressure gauges? What are you going to do for your backup lamps? Automatic transmission? What about the neutral safety switch. Actually looks like you have a manual, since I see that switch harness in there as well.
All of that is mixed in with what you removed.

If the Orange wires are decently done and are marked so you know what they are, you can leave it that way if you want. If you want to start over with something resembling stock you can use something like this: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Ignition-Switch-Socket-Pigtail/Bronco_Wiring_Harness as they are still available in factory colors.

Obviously you're dealing with a big mess left by the PO, but you're (probably by necessity at this point) digging into it willy nilly too. So don't throw anything away just yet, 'cause you might need it!

Paul

The water temp gauge goes to the Sniper EFI and is displayed on their touch screen. The oil pressure gauge was converted to aftermarket by the P.O. (previous owner) and I am trying to convert it back to stock, he had ran a tube to an aftermarket dial.

Is the single red wire for the oil pressure? If so that makes hooking my stock gauges back up a lot easier.

Trans is manual, not sure about the backup lamps. None of those wires that I took pictures of were connected to anything in the engine bay... it looks like the one is a neutral safety switch/reverse wire, but there is no sensor present and they are not connected to anything.

I don't want to eliminate anything that I need and I am defiantly not cutting any factory wires. Only disconnecting connectors that seem to serve no purpose after removing the old ignition system and removing wires the P.O. had added. I am definitively not throwing anything away too. Just trying to clean up unused wires, only if they can be disconnected without cutting.

I also really want to confirm that in that major harness that I removed there is nothing besides ignition wires in there and removing it will not effect anything else? The P.O. had tapped into the coil wires and connected them elsewhere, possibly to gauges that got eliminated. I just wanted to confirm that there is no power supply to the dash harness or similar in that wire loom that I removed. If its even possible to tell... As it was before removing that harness did come from the driver side firewall to the coil/distributor, but it also had one wire that spanned to the positive side of the battery. Just want to double check that it did not power anything else besides the coil.

Thank you again! I cant stress how helpful you have been with this.

 

[DirtDonk]

The water temp gauge goes to the Sniper EFI and is displayed on their touch screen.

Will you always have the display showing that screen? If so I guess that's ok, but I know I would sure like to have a constant gauge to monitor, so I can still play with all the other fun functions on the Sniper display.

The oil pressure gauge was converted to aftermarket by the P.O. (previous owner) and I am trying to convert it back to stock, he had ran a tube to an aftermarket dial.

You'll use the stock sender then, down by the oil filter.

Is the single red wire for the oil pressure? If so that makes hooking my stock gauges back up a lot easier.

Original wire was White w/red stripe.
For water temp gauge, the wire is Red w/white stripe.

Trans is manual, not sure about the backup lamps. None of those wires that I took pictures of were connected to anything in the engine bay...

Check out the bottom of your steering column housing, below the brake master cylinder. Is there a simple plunger switch clamped to the column with what looks like a hose clamp? If so, that's your backup lamp switch.
It will have two male blade terminals on it that your wiring harness plugs to. You can see the harness in one of your pics with the two "flag" style female spade connectors.
Wire color is Black w/red.

it looks like the one is a neutral safety switch/reverse wire, but there is no sensor present and they are not connected to anything.

NSS wire for manual transmission is just a short loop of Red w/blue wire.
It's in the 4-wire connector along with one section of the Black w/red backup lamp wires.

I also really want to confirm that in that major harness that I removed there is nothing besides ignition wires in there and removing it will not effect anything else?

It does, but what would make it easier to keep track of is if you itemize the wire colors of each and ever wire in the harness you disconnected.
We can then run down the function of each individual circuit so you can see what you would like to keep.
Generally speaking, that little bit of wire is something you would like to keep intact. Otherwise you're re-making half of it over again to replace what you need no matter what.
And the few that remain unused can be repurposed later perhaps.

I just wanted to confirm that there is no power supply to the dash harness or similar in that wire loom that I removed. If its even possible to tell...

With the wire colors we can tell much.
And there is at least one power source in that harness I'm sure. Possibly more.

As it was before removing that harness did come from the driver side firewall to the coil/distributor, but it also had one wire that spanned to the positive side of the battery. Just want to double check that it did not power anything else besides the coil.

Not sure. Point out which wire it was again please, and list it's full color, including any traces/stripes.

Paul

 

[Crainbow243]

Will you always have the display showing that screen? If so I guess that's ok, but I know I would sure like to have a constant gauge to monitor, so I can still play with all the other fun functions on the Sniper display.

You'll use the stock sender then, down by the oil filter.

Original wire was White w/red stripe.
For water temp gauge, the wire is Red w/white stripe.

It does, but what would make it easier to keep track of is if you itemize the wire colors of each and ever wire in the harness you disconnected.
We can then run down the function of each individual circuit so you can see what you would like to keep.
Generally speaking, that little bit of wire is something you would like to keep intact. Otherwise you're re-making half of it over again to replace what you need no matter what.
And the few that remain unused can be repurposed later perhaps.

I do plan to keep the screen visible while driving, but not a bad idea to add a second sensor for the analog dash.

The oil pressure sender unit was removed and he was using a tube to connect the oil pressure area to a gauge. I have since removed that and added the stock electronic sensor, but not sure where to wire it too yet.

If I locate the NSS I will reconnect that 4 pin connector to it. May have to buy a sensor though.

Ill try to label all the wire, some of them are in pretty bad shape and hard to see what color they used to be. Ill take some more pictures and post back.

 

[DirtDonk]

The oil pressure sender unit was removed and he was using a tube to connect the oil pressure area to a gauge. I have since removed that and added the stock electronic sensor, but not sure where to wire it too yet.

Wire straight from the sending unit to the gauge. That's it.
Power is supplied to the gauges (water, oil and fuel) via the IVR (instrument voltage regulator) and the sender is a variable grounding point. So only one wire needed as long as the expected voltage is supplied to the gauges at the other end.

If I locate the NSS I will reconnect that 4 pin connector to it. May have to buy a sensor though.

You don't have an NSS with the manual trans, so only a looped wire as a jumper to keep the circuit complete. If you find the Red w/blue wire from the ignition switch, then the Red w/blue wire from the starter relay's "S" post, make sure they're connected in the middle.

Paul

 

[Crainbow243]

Ok, I am working on re-installing my gauge cluster and rewiring it and then I am going to pull the dash off and double check all the wires in there and confirm. Ill try to get a better picture of the wires I removed with their colors to double check.

This is the alternator gauge (amperage meter) that I have in my dash:

I am assuming that the vehicle originally ran a major power line through that loop... but that seems dangerous and pointless to run the alternator main line through the dash to this gauge... right? I don't have plans to get it up and running again, I may just add a good voltmeter separately.

 

[DirtDonk]

...I am assuming that the vehicle originally ran a major power line through that loop...

Correct. The large gauge Black wire (Black w/yellow and sometimes Black w/red and sometimes just Black) runs from the alternator to the cabin then back out to charge the battery.
When the engine was not running the power traveled from the battery to keep things powered. When running, the alternator powered everything and charged the battery at the same time (hence the 14.5v nominal reading when running).

...but that seems dangerous and pointless to run the alternator main line through the dash to this gauge... right?

The gauge itself is not dangerous (though direct reading gauges were dangerous if overloaded) and the wire itself is not dangerous if everything stays as designed. But you're correct that running the main power wire for such a long distance was not the best practice and things can happen.
You still need power to the cabin, sometimes substantial power through similar gauge wires, but simplifying it by keeping all that under the hood was how they did it on full size and later model vehicles. At some point around the mid to late '80's (I think) they simply replaced all ammeters with voltmeters instead.

I don't have plans to get it up and running again, I may just add a good voltmeter separately.

That's what most are doing, and a good plan. While you have it out you can simply replace the existing ammeter with a matched voltmeter in the same spot and not have a separate gauge sticking off the dash: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Voltage-Gauge-Stock-Cluster/dashgauges
Simple and reliable and tells you most of what you need to know with your system.

But you so still need to keep the large Black wire connected unless you re-wire the entire vehicle. It still powers everything inside, so once you remove the ammeter you still need to keep the two halves of the wire connected. And the other end still connected to the starter relay at the battery side so it gets power.
This keeps power flowing, but no longer does the double-duty of the old way. No more charging the battery with it, so you'll have to wire your alternator's BAT output directly to the battery at the starter relay.
Depending on which alternator style you go with, you could use the old size (roughly 10ga) from the alternator to the battery. Or if you use a more powerful alternator you'll have to upgrade the wire size commensurate with it's output.
Up to 6ga and even 4ga battery cable size conductors, with fuse, or fusible link protection.

Paul

 

[Crainbow243]

Need help with some more wiring issues. Finally got my engine running with the new EFI, but still have some wiring issues to sort out.

First off the alternator does not seem to be working (12v or less while running). It was working before I started this project so I suspect a wiring issue. I traced the wires and it appears to have 3 wires coming out of the alternator and surprised to me, they do not go to the battery.

Off the alternator I have these 3 wires:

Then they separate near the firewall

Two small ones go to that black box and the one larger one goes into that connector and through the firewall, which I trace to underneath the dash where it loops back to the same place and back to the battery.

My guess is this was all for the dash ampmeter, which is not important to me at all. There is a voltage meter on the Holley Sniper EFI screen which is always on.

So my question is can I just eliminate the large wire and run it straight from the alternator to the battery and leave the small wires intake?

If so, what exactly are those small wires off the alternator doing?

Thank you in advance!

 

[DirtDonk]

Not sure if any of these will fix the issue, but here are a couple of notable things anyway.

I traced the wires and it appears to have 3 wires coming out of the alternator and surprised to me, they do not go to the battery.

Should be BAT, FLD and STA in your case.
The BAT is the large Black w/yellow and no, it does not go to the battery like it would on vehicles without an ammeter. As you suspected, it feeds the entire vehicle, passes through the ammeter, then back out to charge the battery.
Leave it alone inside the cab, but you can change it in the engine compartment.

The Orange field wire as you may see goes directly to the F terminal of the voltage regulator right there on the firewall. Needs to stay there.

If you do have a stator wire ('73 and later only), it's White w/black (or a faded variation of that) and runs directly to the electric choke on the carburetor. It has nothing to do if you removed the choke, or in your case used EFI so you can remove the White w/black stator wire.

There is supposed to be a 4th wire on the alternator and that's a small Black ground wire from the case to the mounting screw for the regulator. When using an old style alternator this is important to maintain.

Two small ones go to that black box and the one larger one goes into that connector and through the firewall, which I trace to underneath the dash where it loops back to the same place and back to the battery.

Gonna' come back to this when I look at the pics more closely again.

My guess is this was all for the dash ampmeter, which is not important to me at all. There is a voltage meter on the Holley Sniper EFI screen which is always on.

The large Black w/yellow wire is the only one at the ammeter, and that can be removed from the alternator at this point. But you MUST keep the wire intact under the dash where that push-connector is in your pic.
If you disconnect that wire you get ZERO power to anything. Zip...
That's because the other end is what connects to the battery, as you suspect.

You can repurpose the part under the hood, or eliminate it between the alternator and firewall and use a new wire to charge the battery direct from the alternator. That's what everyone needs to do with more powerful alternators anyway.
Is yours still stock? Or an upgrade?

One big thing I see and am curious about, is the small Green w/red wire that's running over that sharp body edge where the heater intake plenum used to be.
As I think I can see, it runs to the voltage regulator. That's correct, but why it's coming out of that hole I do not know. But get it off the metal!

And check it for power with the key ON. That's the wire that tells your charging system to turn on and it's very important to this discussion possibly.

Here's what to check at the regulator plug.
You want the Green w/red wire to have power with the key ON only.
You want the Yellow wire to have full battery power all the time, no matter what position the key is in.
The Orange wire can be checked at this point too, for a good connection to the alternator. They rarely fail, but are worth checking while you're doing all this.

See what you find and let us know.

Paul