Have EFI 5.0 , want to swap to 351

[Timmy390]

Vin sticker on the door which matches the vin number in the windshield shows it's a 1996. My catch code is LAD1 I sold the core support already so can't look there. Did I mention I have van parts for sale?

It all has to do with the over 8500lb GVWR and the loophole in the Emissions law. 8500 and above didn't have to move to ODBII in 1996. I have the port but it doesn't work however the ODBI port under the hood does work. I can't find much info on the 5.8L E350's but the conversion of the 1996 460's from SD to Mass Air info is out there.

Maybe that's the wrong ECU for the van but I couldn't fine a Mass air sensor on the intake pipes. It shouldn't run and drive without the Mass sensor and a SD ECU shouldn't work on a MA van? Should be totally different pins.

Tim

 

[mattt]

Vin sticker on the door which matches the vin number in the windshield shows it's a 1996. My catch code is LAD1 I sold the core support already so can't look there. Did I mention I have van parts for sale?

It all has to do with the over 8500lb GVWR and the loophole in the Emissions law. 8500 and above didn't have to move to ODBII in 1996. I have the port but it doesn't work however the ODBI port under the hood does work. I can't find much info on the 5.8L E350's but the conversion of the 1996 460's from SD to Mass Air info is out there.

Maybe that's the wrong ECU for the van but I couldn't fine a Mass air sensor on the intake pipes. It shouldn't run and drive without the Mass sensor and a SD ECU shouldn't work on a MA van? Should be totally different pins.

Tim

One thing I know with certainty is that the OBDII system has more pins in the ECU and connector....maybe 104? The OBD1 stuff is 60 pin, just like the Mustang EEC's. How many pins on your van? On some vans, that sticker in stuck to the inside, bottom side of the hood.

The door jamb tags are not always a good way to ID model year, which is why I suggested the emissions sticker. I know someone that relied on the door jamb sticker when looking at an Explorer 5.0. He thought he was buying GT40 heads because the door sticker had a 96 date, but the Explorer was a 97 and had GT40P heads. Bummer.

 

[Timmy390]

One thing I know with certainty is that the OBDII system has more pins in the ECU and connector....maybe 104? The OBD1 stuff is 60 pin, just like the Mustang EEC's. How many pins on your van? On some vans, that sticker in stuck to the inside, bottom side of the hood.

The door jamb tags are not always a good way to ID model year, which is why I suggested the emissions sticker. I know someone that relied on the door jamb sticker when looking at an Explorer 5.0. He thought he was buying GT40 heads because the door sticker had a 96 date, but the Explorer was a 97 and had GT40P heads. Bummer.

Nothing under the hood but green paint and dirt. I have a 60 pin EEC-IV ECM vs. the 104 pin. Not having a Mass Air sensor speaks volumes IMO.

Yeah doors can be swapped. I try to verify the numbers off the dash and door match.

Tim

 

[mattt]

Nothing under the hood but green paint and dirt. I have a 60 pin EEC-IV ECM vs. the 104 pin. Not having a Mass Air sensor speaks volumes IMO.

Yeah doors can be swapped. I try to verify the numbers off the dash and door match.

Tim

Yes, no mass air sensor or harness pigtail does speak volumes. The mass air pigtail comes out of the main harness loom about midship as it runs across the engine compartment at the back of the hood. The ones I've seen with a mass air connector plug are grey in color and the same shape/style as the Mustang, kind of egg shaped.

 

[Timmy390]

Yes, no mass air sensor or harness pigtail does. The mass air pigtail comes out of the main harness loom about midship as it runs across the engine compartment at the back of the hood. The ones I've seen with a mass air connector plug are grey in color and the same shape/style as the Mustang, kind of egg shaped.

Yep and this rig doesn't have one of those plugs........I wish it did...LOL Save m a few buck and smooth out my project a bit.

The valve cover had a sticker on it (faded) but you could make out the build date of Dec/7/95 and + 10 which the timing was set at.

Tim

 

[mattt]

Interesting info you related there Timmy390 about having a '96 vintage OBD1 SD setup. That is another missing info from Ryan's EEC list that I linked earlier. I've found quite a few un-listed(on Ryan's site) 95 Mass Air OBD1 5.8 & 5.0 w/ 4R70W or E4OD trans in my travels. I've started to compile those catch codes on FSB.

If you were going to run the van drivetrain totally stock, then the harness you have on hand may have helped. However, if you were going to change anything, like trans, you might have been out of luck anyway. Since that vintage of EEC controls engine and trans, it may have not run correctly with the trans missing. There is starting to be more outside support for that vintage of EEC, but it's still in the early stage vs. the amount of support that can be found easily for say Mustang EFI. That's one of the reasons I did mine with Mustang ECU......easy to find support online and in real world.

 

[roundhouse]

Alright
Gonna try to pick up the free van and pull the engine next week

What flywheel do I need to use the 1996 351W with my NV3550 ?

I'm guessing the flywheel from the 5.0 won't work ?

 

[rguest3]

You will need a 28oz. Flywheel to go with that motor. I would machine and use the current 351w flywheel.

WH has flywheel and clutch kit for the NV3550. Ask if 351w Flywheel will work.

 

[roundhouse]

You will need a 28oz. Flywheel to go with that motor. I would machine and use the current 351w flywheel.

WH has flywheel and clutch kit for the NV3550. Ask if 351w Flywheel will work.

Which balance does the 5.0 have ?
I did the 5.0 swap 15 years ago
Seems like I remember having the old flywheel from the bronco rebalanced to work with the 90 5.0

Do I need to find a flywheel from a 351 f-250 ?
And what years have the right balance ?

The clutch plate for the 5.0 to NV3550 is from a camaro I think
But I don't remember which year / engine

The van is automatic. I'm assuming it just has a flex plate thing ?


The worthless ford automatic
Thats why they are getting rid of the van
They bought it new in 97 , it has about 140K on it and they decided they didn't want to spend $2000 again , for transmission number 4

 

[rguest3]

ALL 351Ws are 28oz. Balance.

Early 302s are 28oz. Balance.

Mid 80s and up 5.0Ls are all 50oz.

Yes, a manual transmission requires a Fly Wheel with the clutch assembly. An Automatic Transmission has a Flex Plate that the Torque Convertor mounts to.

 

[roundhouse]

ALL 351Ws are 28oz. Balance.

Early 302s are 28oz. Balance.

Mid 80s and up 5.0Ls are all 50oz.

Yes, a manual transmission requires a Fly Wheel with the clutch assembly. An Automatic Transmission has a Flex Plate that the Torque Convertor mounts to.

Its always been a manual trans
When I bought it in 95 it had a 351w and stock 3 speed on the Collum

When the shifter wore out i installed a duffs floor shifter
Then when the 351w croaked in 1999 I swapped in a EFI 5.0 from a 90 mustang

Then a couple years later I swapped in a T-18
That trans totally sucked so
a year later I swapped in the NV3550

I remember buying a flywheel and having it rebalanced or something

Apparently I didn't use the one from the 351w that I pulled out

Anyhoo
So which flywheel exactly do I need?
From which donor vehicle ?
Or does someone make a new one that's affordable and not made in china?

Does the 351 flywheel accept the same clutch I'm using with the 5.0 and NV3550?

 

[roundhouse]

prices all over the map,

so which one do I needl?
$76
http://www.summitracing.com/ga/parts/zzz-50-735

or do I need this one? $83

http://www.summitracing.com/ga/parts/zzz-50-738


is this the same flywheel at Toms? $160
http://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/prod...-tooth-66-77-early-ford-bronco-302351w-v8-new

and at WH ? $160
http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Flywheel_351W

and at BC? $140
http://www.bcbroncos.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1452

 

[roundhouse]

Got my free van !
Sold the wheels for $300

Anybody know which flywheel I need ?

 

[roundhouse]

Well I pulled the ECM, engine harness, the main ECM harness including all relays and such. I kept the gas peddle and cable, the charcoal canister and hoses, all the fuel lines and filter (it was a new). Oh and of course the engine. At the time I was going to use the SD system. It's good to have the plugs I guess.

No sawzall needed for me on the front. Everything in the front of the van unbolts leaving a pathway to pull the motor. It was not an easy pull. I had to sawzall the exhaust. I had to take the front dress off to get to the motor mount bolts. I had to also remove the oil cooler thing that attaches to the block at the oil filter. Once I got the motor mount bolts loose, I had hell getting the bolts/mounts out. I had to really tilt the motor left/right to get them out. There are a couple of brackets that hold some heater tubes (mine has the rear area heater) and the wiring harness plugs that I removed to gain 2 inches more height for the pull. A couple of bell housing bolts are hard to get to.

I pulled it by myself using my Harbor Freight 2 ton cherry picker

Tim

Did you have to drop the trans ?

Any other tips ?

Geeze it's like they built the van around the engine

How did they get it in the first time ?

 

[Timmy390]

Got my free van !
Sold the wheels for $300

Anybody know which flywheel I need ?

Free van and $300.....VERY NICE

You need a 164-Tooth, 28oz. Engine Balance Ford 302, 351W flywheel which should be stock on the Original Bronco.

Like this one:
http://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/prod...-tooth-66-77-early-ford-bronco-302351w-v8-new

Did you have to drop the trans ?

Any other tips ?

Geeze it's like they built the van around the engine

How did they get it in the first time ?

YEAH.....it's stuffed in there for sure. At the factory the motor, suspension and frame are built one part of the process and along the line the body is mounted to it.

The good news is the whole front of the van comes apart leaving a big hole to slide the engine forward/up and out. Remove everything up front. I just flipped the hood back onto the windshield.

I didn't drop the trans but you will need to support it. I had hell getting to the motor mounts. I had to remove all the front dress, air pump, PS pump, oil cooler and filter were all blocking the front mount bolts. You will need to remove the mounts from the van and that took some doing. I had to really fight the van to get them out of the way.

I had to just cut the exhaust off the thing with a sawzall as there was no access to the bolts.

Several of the bell housing bolts are very hard to get at. Took me a while to get a couple on the passenger side out due to limited access.

I used a HF 2 ton hoist to yank it out after I got everything loose.

All In all it wasn't that bad of a job. just took some figuring out.

Tim

 

[Timmy390]

Shoot me a OM with your email and I'll send you a few pics of the front all off

Tim

 

[roundhouse]

On mine it looks like the motor mounts bolt to be engine and then the frame

Looks like there's two bolts holding it to the frame
Did you have to unbolt the mount from the frame and from the engine ?

I was able to unbolt the exhaust pipes from the manifolds easy

Front dress has to come off anyway to lose the smog pump.

 

[Timmy390]

On mine it looks like the motor mounts bolt to be engine and then the frame

Looks like there's two bolts holding it to the frame
Did you have to unbolt the mount from the frame and from the engine ?

I was able to unbolt the exhaust pipes from the manifolds easy

Front dress has to come off anyway to lose the smog pump.

I was able to just unbolt the mounts from the motor (once the front dress was off) and then till the motor left/right to remove the mounts. Sounds like your mounts are exactly like mine.

Sent a few pics of the front end taken off.

Tim

 

[roundhouse]

now if I could just figure out which flywheel I need.

prices all over the place, some almost double for what appears to be the exact same item ?

 

[Bluebolt]

Flywheel

now if I could just figure out which flywheel I need.

prices all over the place, some almost double for what appears to be the exact same item ?

That Zoom for $75.97 should work.