help for a squirrely ride

[.94 OR]

Speaking of tires…
Are those 20 year-old tires? If so, they’re probably a decent contributor to this problem as well.

That ...41 picture looks like there are "whiskers" on top of the tire.

 

[73azbronco]

One of the worst rides I ever had was driving tires that have sat on the ground for 5 years and got flat spots, would not go away. Good news I now have new KO3 that have been on jacks for 5 years, perfectly round.

Looks like your drop pitman is way to much drop, to much angle difference between pitman and drag link

 

[jamesroney]

I don’t remember if it’s been discussed here yet or not, but can’t a wristed axle housing be locked in place?
I know everybody says get rid of it, and I totally agree. But if it can be locked in place instead, then you’re not out all of that previous work and investment.
Not until you could find somebody that wants to buy a wrested axle for their crawler.
And get a decent amount of your money back.

You are thinking right.

10 minutes of prep and 5 minutes with my Millermatic 250, and it wouldn't be wristed anymore. It's a LOT easier to lock them than to wrist them.

 

[4x4man514]

Even though they’re very dark, that helps a lot.

With four and a half inches of lift on a bronco you really do have to have everything perfect.
Is your tie-rod over the knuckle, or under? Looks like it’s still under but I’m not sure.
What is that large flat plate that looks to be bolted to the diff cover on the driver side?
Have you had the steering stabilizer shock off to test it?
What is the age (not the mileage) of your tires, and what tire pressures are you running?
With large tires, with aggressive tread, and heavily offset Wheels, every little input is going to be exaggerated because of the leverage factor against the Steering system.
Are you in the top hole of your trackbar Riser?
If so, I would get a dropped track bar bracket as well. A lot of people want to avoid that, but you have no choice at this point. You need to better match the angle of the track bar to the drag link.
Even though a shorter track bar can get away with a little bit of a steeper angle, your mismatch between the drag leg and track bar is too great I believe.
And at this point too, the overall angle of the track bar is too steep, I think, and is greatly contributing to your squirrel handling.

i think the tie rod is under the knuckle but the drag link is on top. i believe it interferes with the rim if i try to put both on top

the plate is a guard for the solenoid for the detroit electrac locker

the stabilizer is brand new

the tires are practically brand new bought a couple of years ago but just mounted them a few months ago

and i think i am in the top hole of the track bar riser

 

[4x4man514]

That ...41 picture looks like there are "whiskers" on top of the tire.

whiskers?

 

[4x4man514]

One of the worst rides I ever had was driving tires that have sat on the ground and got flat spots, would not go away.

Looks like your drop pitman is way to much drop, to much angle difference between pitman and drag link

these tires are practically new. no flat spots. i see what your saying about the pitman arm. do they make them in varying sizes? or is it just stock and drop?

 

[4x4man514]

You are thinking right.

10 minutes of prep and 5 minutes with my Millermatic 250, and it wouldn't be wristed anymore. It's a LOT easier to lock them than to wrist them.

that might be an option. ill have to see how it behaves when i get the rear sttraightened out

 

[.94 OR]

whiskers?

Forensic evidence says these tires have very few miles on them. Are they "new"? Date code would tell you more but I am seeing the whiskers of a no mile tire.

 

[4x4man514]

Forensic evidence says these tires have very few miles on them. Are they "new"? Date code would tell you more but I am seeing the whiskers of a no mile tire.

Lol. I got ya . Whiskers! Forensic evidence is never wrong! I think they have 5 miles on them to be exact

 

[DirtDonk]

While I agree that a pitman arm with less drop would help to bring the linkage angles closer to parallel, I also think it's going in the wrong direction.
You generally don't want to increase an angle to correct it. You want to gain the benefit of a LOWER angle overall. Meaning it's better to bring down the trackbar, than to raise the draglink with a shorter drop pitman arm.
At your lift height, a lower overall angle will give you more linear steering feel. It's already hard enough to get a decent angle on the steering with a 4.5" lift. Don't go backwards.

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

While I agree that a pitman arm with less drop would help to bring the linkage angles closer to parallel, I also think it's going in the wrong direction.
You generally don't want to increase an angle to correct it. You want to gain the benefit of a LOWER angle overall. Meaning it's better to bring down the trackbar, than to raise the draglink with a shorter drop pitman arm.
At your lift height, a lower overall angle will give you more linear steering feel. It's already hard enough to get a decent angle on the steering with a 4.5" lift. Don't go backwards.

Paul

Yea i agree. And to be honest i thought my angles were better until i took that pic. It def is off. I guess ill order a drpp bracket. Have you seen where one was any beefier tjan another? Or are they all aboit the same?

 

[Yeller]

If ordering a bracket to install put a riser on the axle, it will drive better.

 

[4x4man514]

If ordering a bracket to install put a riser on the axle, it will drive better.

I have a riser already. I just need a little more

 

[DirtDonk]

Some brackets are heavier duty than others, but most are the same in that regard.
Some are actually taller, or shorter, and mount in slightly different ways. You might want to check around to see who’s got what.
But first, measure the difference in your mounting to see how much drop you actually need.
You may not need the full amount. Or you might need more.
I have always ours, but Duff has a short one with two different holes in it that might suit.
Or at least they used to years ago. Haven’t checked it lately.
Maybe a special Custom one from one of the fabrication shops is called for here.
You won’t know until you measure.

I might be wrong, but I don’t think the weak point that the complaints are about is the bracket itself, more like the frame cracking around the original bracket. Others can answer that question better.

I prefer brackets that mount over/outside of the original bracket and can be welded not only to it, but to the frame as well.
Some tuck inside/behind the original bracket and are very clean looking. But I’m not sure that they are necessarily stronger.

But again, measure first, buy once (or fewer times!) ha ha.
You can guesstimate pretty close with a tape measure.
Or you could unbolt the upper end of the bar and lower it until the two are parallel, or where you think they should be, and then measure the difference.

 

[73azbronco]

While I agree that a pitman arm with less drop would help to bring the linkage angles closer to parallel, I also think it's going in the wrong direction.
You generally don't want to increase an angle to correct it. You want to gain the benefit of a LOWER angle overall. Meaning it's better to bring down the trackbar, than to raise the draglink with a shorter drop pitman arm.
At your lift height, a lower overall angle will give you more linear steering feel. It's already hard enough to get a decent angle on the steering with a 4.5" lift. Don't go backwards.

Paul

Agree, I think with that much lift you need a drop bracket on frame or raised bracket on axle. I vote for drop bracket myself, even though I have raised, not a fan with how much interference the raised threw in the equation.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, lots of stuff trying to share that space.
With the OP's 4.5" lift, it should be ok and he's got one already. Using multiple adjustments for steering angles is usually called for with 4 inches or more of lift.
So, along with the existing riser, a drop bracket might be (IS in this case) called for. Right along with a dropped arm AND sometimes a tie-rod over swap.
Which, in this case, does not work due to wheel interference.
It's always something!

It's why you should always mock things up with higher lifts.

Paul

 

[Grey owl]

hey guys, so heres my question. when i first built my bronco 20 years ago i built it for the trail. 4 inches in the front 5 in the back with 37s. i had the bc bronco(i think) rear spring rockers. and extended radius arms in the front. it was definitely a lil loose on the rd but managable.

well i had a fire and had to start over. i still have the same lift with the same rockers in the rear. in the front now i have stock radius arms but i now have a wristed axle. i finally got it on the rd and even at 20mph its scary the way it wanders around

i finally got it on the rd and even at 20mph its scary the way it wanders around. since my rebuild i did a full frame off restoration so its safe to say this ol girl has seen her last trail. pavement princess for sure. so i know alot of this looseness can be eliminated with these upgrades

my question is, what do yall think is causing my biggest issue? what should i try to eliminate first? i didnt think these changes would make it ride that much worse( or maybe its the fact i havent driven an eb in 20 yrs and have forgotten lol.) or do yall think it could be more of an alignment issue?

thanks a bunch!
kevin

Its all going to boil down to the caster numbers, seems to be a common theme. Any time these trucks are lifted and large tires added the chase for good caster begins.

 

[4x4man514]

Ok so a little update. I got my spring rockers out and my blocks in and I got my shocks swapped back to the original mounts.

The ride is a whole lot better but I'm not there yet. I've just been on smooth roads but bump steer doesn't seem to bad but the thing I'm noticing the most is at highway speeds it tends to kind of "wander". Yall think that's a caster issues or could the wristed front end be causing that?

Thanks!

 

[Yeller]

The wristed housing may or may not be contributing other than the sway is pretty loose without the sway bar effect of the housing. I apologize for not reading your posts in great detail if you already stated, do you know what the caster angle is?

 

[SLOWnEASY]

Don't know about the wristed housing. But insufficient caster will definitely cause it to wander. Of course so will incorrect negative toe can have an effect as well.