Horn button parts

[tpls63]

THIS IS AN EARLY '66 BRONCO U13 170 CID
I THINK I'M MISSING SOMETHING IN MY HORN BUTTON AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT IS AS THE SHOP MANUALS DON'T SHOW MUCH SO I'M HOPING SOMEONE HERE CAN HELP.
THIS A A PICTURE OF INSIDE THE HUB AT THE TURN SIGNAL SWITCH AND HORN CONNECTIONS. THE HORN SOUNDS WHEN THE TWO BUTTONS AT THE YELLOW ARROWS ARE CONNECTED:

THIS IS THE PLATE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE STEERING WHEEL WHICH GOES ON NEXT AND THE COPPER IS WORN THROUGH IN THE MIDDLE AS YOU CAN SEE. IT SEEMS THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING ELSE IN HERE BETWEEN THE STEERING WHEEL AND THE HORN CONNECTIONS:

THIS SHOWS THE UNDERSIDE OF THE HORN BUTTON AND THE TAB AT THE YELLOW ARROW MAKES CONTACT WITH THE YELLOW ARROW IN THE NEXT PICTURE:

THIS IS THE TOP SIDE OF THE STEERING WHEEL:

WHEN ASSEMBLED, PUSHING THE HORN BUTTON DOES NOTHING, THERE IS NOTHING HERE TO CONNECT THE TWO HORN CONNECTIONS WHEN PUSHING THE BUTTON.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS MISSING AND IF THE PART IS AVAILABLE?
THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR TIME!
dOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS MISSING

 

[bteutsch]

I think you are missing the contacts that are on the steering wheel. I had this wheel laying around so I didn't have to take mine apart.. It appears you have a complete horn button assembly. But the contacts on the horn button have nothing to contact with in the wheel. Parts show to be the same for 66-74.. I have a 1971 and recently put all that in and got it working. Those two contacts screw on so I'm assuming they are replaceable, I could not find them doing a quick search on the vendor sites though.

 

[Jdgephar]

THIS IS THE PLATE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE STEERING WHEEL WHICH GOES ON NEXT AND THE COPPER IS WORN THROUGH IN THE MIDDLE AS YOU CAN SEE. IT SEEMS THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING ELSE IN HERE BETWEEN THE STEERING WHEEL AND THE HORN CONNECTIONS:

It's not worn through. If the copper was connected, the horn would always be on.

 

[tpls63]

I seems like there should be something else between the copper and the contacts though because the copper didn't show any wear at all where the contacts meet it. The slight marks you see in the picture are just from me trying it. The contacts were worn almost away so I put a small drop of solder on each one to see if it made any diff and it doesn't. But they must have worn on something else that seems missing.

Does anyone have one of these steering wheels off that can post some pictures?

Also what do the contacts in your picture bteutsch connect to?
Any chance you can remove one and take a picture of it? Chances are I can make it if it isn't available anywhere.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Kdub]

^^^
I think bteutsch is on it. When you push the button it rocks down to the contacts(from the protrusion?), thus completing the circuit

 

[thegreatjustino]

x3 on bteutsch being correct. In the picture of the back of your horn button, there are two small round contacts at the top. Those touch the contacts that are missing from your steering wheel and complete the connection.

LMC has the best selection of stock horn/steering wheel parts that I have found.

 

[tpls63]

Those contacts missing on mine must go through the steering wheel hub and connect with something else underneath. But the top side of that copper plate when removed doesn't look like anything should attach to it or go through it so I'm puzzled. If I could see what they look like I can probably make it work.
Thanks

 

[DirtDonk]

The two spring-loaded contacts in picture #1 (is that where you put the solder?) are part of the turn-signal switch. New ones come with a new switch, so you may just have to fork over for the switch assembly if those are your issue.
They do wear out on pre-74 EB's too. The full current of the horn passes through them and the sparks alone cause carbon buildup that causes the horn to work intermittently.
With yours being 47 years old (if it's original anyway) it's no wonder they're worn out. Your copper contacts look a bit worn too. Some new dielectric grease would not be a bad idea for their sliding surfaces.

I'm not versed in all the tiny parts enough to know if something else is missing, but you've got that info from the others already.

For the older rigs like yours (and my '71), if you're not doing a religiously accurate restoration, I would convert the system to use a horn relay. It takes the main load off of the horn button and puts it all down into an easy-to-replace relay instead.
I did it on mine years ago and the horn and button were much happier after that!

Paul

 

[tpls63]

Yes, that's where I put the solder. I know it's too soft for a permanent repair and planned on soldering a small piece of copper on each one eventually but I want to get it working first.
If they (the two spring loaded contacts for the horn in the turn signal switch) do in fact ride on the copper discs I wonder why there is no evidence of wear on the copper discs especially since the contacts themselves were worn out.
Also there is no continuity between the two copper discs or between either of the discs and the metal housing they are attached to, and with no other connections going to the horn button on top I can't see how the horn can work.
Something is wrong and I'm hoping someone knows what it is cause I sure don't.
Thanks again!

 

[DirtDonk]

There is only continuity when the horn button is pressed and something in the steering wheel segment below the button (the tab in pic 4) makes the connection.
At any other time they're all discrete.

As for the wear, I'm not sure. But in the second pic they sure look worn out to me! But they're lubed from the factory too, so before someone cleaned it up they had some lubricant protecting them from wear.
And, as you've seen in your particular case, the little tabs are of a softer material and are the "wear item" instead of the copper contact rings.

Paul

 

[tpls63]

I can see where the contacts inside the horn button make contact with the parts that are missing in mine but doing so won't sound the horn unless the two spring loaded contacts below have a way of connecting together and I can't see how that happens. Here is a picture of both sides of the plate with the copper discs on it. The top side of this plate faces the horn button and the long tab goes through the hub and contacts part of the horn button. The inner circle of copper is where the 'hot' horn wire connects but from there it goes nowhere. There is no way for it to connect with anything above, ditto for the outer copper disc which is the negative connection. It goes nowhere with no possible way to connect with the pos connection.

something has to go through this plate and connect with the world above but I can't see how that happens.
Hopefully someone will come along who has one apart and can solve the mystery.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, sorry I can't describe exactly what is touching what. After all these years, I like to think I have a decent grasp of at least the simple systems on a Bronco, but for the life of me I can't duplicate what makes the connection.

I just went out and grabbed my '71 steering wheel and even though the horn worked fine before, I can't get the two plates to connect either! Curses, foiled again...

And naturally your '66 is completely different from mine in materials. Mine is just two polished steel rings, instead of copper. But it's still assembled and pushing on the tab in any plane does not make the two halves contact. At least as far as my ohm-meter was reading.

I'm thinking that the horn button itself is the common denominator here. It has to, through that tab and ring flange connection, complete the connection between the two copper rings by passing the current through from the Yellow wire and the inner ring, through the metal pieces of the wheel hub, into the (insulated) horn button and then back out through the outer ring.

I just can't see the path.
And the part is not available through us (right now at least) except as part of the steering wheel.
That's not a sneaky way of charging 120 bucks for a $10 part. It's just how we get them.
I'm going to look at some of the other sites to see if it's listed anywhere.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Sorry, forgot to mention this part ( http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Horn_Ring_Contact_Kit_66-74 ) which is just for the button itself, but is likely the main connection route between the two copper rings.
As long as the tab and contact plate is still in functional condition that is. Doesn't appear that the piece in question is part of the kit.

Paul

 

[tpls63]

No, those parts are in the horn button itself and they connect to the housing for the copper discs but do not connect in any way to the copper discs or the horn contact pins. They are all in my third picture from the top.

 

[thegreatjustino]

The parts that are missing from the top of your steering wheel are item number 6 in the link below.

I believe from your pics, you are running a reproduction wheel. The stock wheel did not have that copper plate, but rather used part number 11 in the link.

http://www.lmctruck.com/icatalog/fbr/full.aspx?Page=60

 

[bteutsch]

I don't understand all the confusion, in my steering column the two spring loaded contacts touch the bottom of the steering wheel (basically what you have in picture #1) only mine are spring loaded, there they ride on a metal ring, mine isn't copper, but either way they contact the back side of the steering wheel, the two missing contacts from your wheel, (part #6 from LMC) complete the circuit by contacting those two contact points in picture #2 on the horn ring. I just imagine everything is hot from the horn all the way through the steering column. When you complete the circuit the horn grounds at its mounting point to make the horn blow. I may be wrong but that's the way I pictured it in my mind.

 

[tpls63]

Mine is a very early Bronco built in Sept 65 and I've found a few things on it that are different than the shop manual or parts catalogs. I think the steering wheel is original and they just improved the horn contact parts later in production.

bteutsch the contacts in my first picture are spring loaded too, the springs just don't show in that picture. I can see where the tabs on part #11 go through the hub and parts # 6 screw into #11 but #11 looks only wide enough to contact one of those spring loaded contacts so it's still a puzzle how they get connected to complete a circuit.

I'll order those parts from LMC and see if they fit and work.

I'll make something work.
I'll let you know when I get to that point.
Thank you all for the input, it's very helpful to have several heads thinking this through!

 

[bteutsch]

I may have to pull my steering wheel soon to center my steering box and straighten my wheel when I do I'll take a bunch of pictures..,

 

[tpls63]

i may have to pull my steering wheel soon to center my steering box and straight my wheel when i do i'll take a bunch of pictures..,

wonderful!

 

[thegreatjustino]

bteutsch the contacts in my first picture are spring loaded too, the springs just don't show in that picture. I can see where the tabs on part #11 go through the hub and parts # 6 screw into #11 but #11 looks only wide enough to contact one of those spring loaded contacts so it's still a puzzle how they get connected to complete a circuit.

I had a stock wheel apart about a year ago, so I'm doing this from memory. There are two rings inside the wheel like number 11 in the diagram. For some reason, one of them isn't shown. One of the rings is larger than the other and each one will contact one of the spring loaded contacts. The friend I was helping do this didn't have the horn contact pads (#6) either, and when we installed the two rings and installed the wheel, we overloaded the horn wire and burned it up. We still haven't gotten around to fixing it. The stock horn stuff is a pain for something that seems so simple.


Edit: in looking at the diagram again, they show part #11 behind the turn signal switch, which isn't the connecting ring I'm talking about. Inside the steering wheel are two contact rings. I'll pull off a stock wheel today and take a picture.