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How do you know you're in 4 wheel drive?

DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,143
I'd always heard, before I ever had a 4wd vehicle, that you ONLY want to lock front hubs at very low speed and on loose/slick pavements. I guess that had just always stuck with me. I'd never considered leaving them locked and just going in and out of 4wd

It's not that your old information was completely wrong. It might have been the recommendation for a particular 4wd system (there have always been variations) or it was just someone's misinterpretation of the instructions.
In our case, the Dana 20 t-case is non-syncrhomesh, so you're only supposed to shift into LOW-range at very slow speeds. Into HIGH-range you can shift into 4wd at substantially higher speeds, but should probably still limit that to maybe 45 mph or so. I think 55 mph was the original recommendation, but I'm not sure about that anymore.

And that's just for shifting the transfer case. No limit on the hubs themselves. In fact, if you think about it, most, if not all modern 4wd trucks don't even have lockouts (locking hubs) any more.
Now you have to buy an expensive conversion kit to get 'em!


I'm going to make a baseless assumption that I do not have any traction aiding devices in either diff. With the hubs locked and in 4wd, am I getting equal power to the front wheels?

With our type of t-case, you're getting equal torque to the front and rear through the driveshafts. Without some sort of TAD though, you're never guaranteed to get equal torque to the left and right tires. There are exceptions of course, but one of those is that when both tires are spinning on ice, you probably have equal torque to both sides!

And Early Broncos did have optional limited-slip differentials available from the factory. So you could have some still. What year is yours? Look at the glovebox or kick panel tag to see what axle codes it's got. Or if they're still there, look for the metal tags under a bolt at each differential (front cover, rear housing) to see what it says.
Someone here can interpret them for you, but basically, if you see an "L" in there, it came with a limited-slip originally. No guarantee it's still there of course, or if it is, that it's still fully functional, but it's a good place to start.


Jeff - After locking the hubs, I was able to cruise around the neighborhood at about 20mph and feel comfortable. That made a huge difference.

Nice feeling eh? You might as well spend some quality time in your Bronco with just you (and any interested parties of course too) tooling around the neighborhood to get a real feel for how it works and feels in 2 and 4 wheel drive.
Can't hurt, and it's fun to play around and find the limits when you're in a safe zone, rather than out on a highway or next to a school zone!


Well that just blew my mind... No power is going to either front wheel without the hubs locked?? I have to admit, I thought I knew at least a little more than I'm learning tonight....

It's a good thing to learn especially the basics. What you're doing with the hubs UNLOCKED is simply spinning the front axles inside each hub. They're doing nothing useful except spinning merrily away inside the differential and hubs.
Once you lock the hubs, you're literally tying the axles to the drive hub assemblies to turn the wheels. Without them being locked, the wheels are free to spin. The only exception to that rule is some models of Automatic Locking Hubs that will self-lock into drive when power is applied to the axles in 4wd. But as soon as you reverse, they can unlock.
Some of those older automatic hubs were not fully locked in until you got out and did it manually.

Sorry to add more stuff that you probably already know, but visualize what's going on by following the path of power. Engine to transmission, then to transfer case that "transfers" power to both ends, then through both driveshafts to the differentials, which turn the torque 90° out the axle shafts to the drive hubs. Without that last little bit of hardware locked up, nothing of any real meaning can happen.

Piece of cake... ;)

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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when I first responed I was hopping you wouldn't think I was tryin to be a smart axx;D

Heck, I was glad you put it the way you did. Made more sense in fewer words and got everyone's attention!
Worked real good... ;D


One more key point I might add if I may... With a 4x4 it is easy to get an invincible type thing going on... Just remember it takes just as much space for a 4 by to get stopped as it does a 2 wheel drive. Just puttin that out there.. Happy wheelin!

What Pat said.
And ice is ice, no matter how many rubber bits are trying to roll over it. 2 or 4, it's still lacking enough friction to work well. We're just hoping that at least one tire will have found enough to keep moving forward.

That's why you still see big old 4wd trucks stuffed into snow banks. Farther...

Good discussion. Been awhile and it's good to talk about this stuff.
Fun too!

Paul
 

half cab

Contributor
Guru Bronco
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Dec 8, 2010
Messages
16,285
Could be getting rough here tomorrow night so I might get a chance to get out and rescue some lil ole lady ;)
 

ebindy

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
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2
Loc.
Fishers
Helpful.

Newbie here. Even though this sort thief thing is old hat and easily understood for most of the people on this forum, I found conversations like this very helpful. Thanks for your patienence and taking the time to write out a detailed explanation.
 

jhill52

Jr. Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
127
In the picture the tracks look like both your rear wheels are spinning. If so you have a limited slip axle.
 

okie4570

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Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
9,304
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NW OK
For DirtDonk and jhill52........yes the big trucks do end up in the ditch sometimes!.....and I've got limited slip too!:p Blame my wife for the blurry pic, lol!

Copy2ofDSC00721_zpsd05c0945.jpg
 
OP
OP
TorchRedTulsan

TorchRedTulsan

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
224
In our case, the Dana 20 t-case is non-syncrhomesh, so you're only supposed to shift into LOW-range at very slow speeds. Into HIGH-range you can shift into 4wd at substantially higher speeds, but should probably still limit that to maybe 45 mph or so. I think 55 mph was the original recommendation, but I'm not sure about that anymore.

So I can shift from 2 to 4wd while moving? I thought I had to be stopped and in neutral?

And Early Broncos did have optional limited-slip differentials available from the factory. So you could have some still. What year is yours? Look at the glovebox or kick panel tag to see what axle codes it's got. Or if they're still there, look for the metal tags under a bolt at each differential (front cover, rear housing) to see what it says.
Someone here can interpret them for you, but basically, if you see an "L" in there, it came with a limited-slip originally. No guarantee it's still there of course, or if it is, that it's still fully functional, but it's a good place to start.

It's a 76 with a B8J axel code on the glovebox. Power steering up front with 3.50 and Track-Lock in the back? I'll have to read up on what Track-Lock is. The kick panel tag is starting to peel, but I can make out Front 2240 and Rear 2280 on the same line. Are these weight restrictions?

It's a good thing to learn especially the basics. What you're doing with the hubs UNLOCKED is simply spinning the front axles inside each hub. They're doing nothing useful except spinning merrily away inside the differential and hubs.
Once you lock the hubs, you're literally tying the axles to the drive hub assemblies to turn the wheels. Without them being locked, the wheels are free to spin. The only exception to that rule is some models of Automatic Locking Hubs that will self-lock into drive when power is applied to the axles in 4wd. But as soon as you reverse, they can unlock.
Some of those older automatic hubs were not fully locked in until you got out and did it manually.

Paul

THAT is incredibly helpful! I didn't know the hubs weren't engaged to the axle at all unless locked in. Thanks!

So, a follow-up to my speed question: Are there speed limitations when in 4 high or low?

Newbie here. Even though this sort thief thing is old hat and easily understood for most of the people on this forum, I found conversations like this very helpful. Thanks for your patienence and taking the time to write out a detailed explanation.

Truer words were never spoken. Information and patience from the same place is priceless

In the picture the tracks look like both your rear wheels are spinning. If so you have a limited slip axle.

Makes sense. I wouldn't have thought of that (though I did have a My Cousin Vinny moment just then)
 

half cab

Contributor
Guru Bronco
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Dec 8, 2010
Messages
16,285
For DirtDonk and jhill52........yes the big trucks do end up in the ditch sometimes!.....and I've got limited slip too!:p Blame my wife for the blurry pic, lol!

Copy2ofDSC00721_zpsd05c0945.jpg

could this be why you're wanting two red roadsters?
 

half cab

Contributor
Guru Bronco
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Dec 8, 2010
Messages
16,285
Oh and yes as for me personaly I always have stopped n put in neutral to shift in and out. 4/wheel dr.
 

okie4570

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Jul 16, 2012
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9,304
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NW OK
Yes, it would probably take two roadsters to pull me back over...........one dodge dually was barely enough. We pulled it back over, let it sit for 30 minutes, refilled the power steering fluid.........that was over 200,000 miles ago. I did need a new driver side mirror.
 

DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,143
...Blame my wife for the blurry pic, lol!

Yeah, but was she in the truck when it happened? If so, it wasn't camera skill as much as the JITTERS from adrenalin come-down! Hah!
Kind of like a Black-&-White photo, it lends it some real "you-are-there" feeling. ;)
If she was there, did her elbow end up in your ribs by any chance? Wives tend to appreciate that kind of support from their husbands. ;D

Man, after working on EB's so much lately, I almost forgot what a long-wheelbase looks like!

Paul
 

okie4570

Contributor
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Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
9,304
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NW OK
Yeah, but was she in the truck when it happened? If so, it wasn't camera skill as much as the JITTERS from adrenalin come-down! Hah!
Kind of like a Black-&-White photo, it lends it some real "you-are-there" feeling. ;)
If she was there, did her elbow end up in your ribs by any chance? Wives tend to appreciate that kind of support from their husbands. ;D

Man, after working on EB's so much lately, I almost forgot what a long-wheelbase looks like!

Paul

No, she wasn't there. She was in her Excursion and came by later to get a pic to hold over my head forever:)
 
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