inside of frame

[carpsak09]

i am getting ready to POR15 my frame and was wondering if anyone has found any good ways to get the inside. i have read the old post and there have been some pretty creative solutions. just wanted to know if anyone had come up with anything better or if it is even necessary to POR the inside. is it good enough just to clean out the inside with a powerwasher and be done with it. thanks

 

[Cavalry]

por doesnt work for crap without proper prep work. I would clean it out best you can (mud and junk) and keep it that way. unless you have a frame that is very damaged by salt (and keep it away from that crap) it will last you a very long time uncoated.

 

[carpsak09]

how about eastwood

i just got a catalog from eastwood and was wondering if anyone had ever used there stuff for rust proofing. they are a pretty good company so i would think their product would work well, but some feedback from anyone that has used it would be great. there rustproofing kit also comes with a gun that has a 30" extension and angled tips which would be good for getting inside the frame

 

[scottmcwms]

The Eastwood solution would probably be the best for inside the frame. You will probably need a longer sprayer, but you could make that. I'm not sure what nozzle is on the end of the sprayer, but if you could find one that sprays like a sprinkler head you would be sure to cover all the areas as you pulled it through the frame. I'm pretty sure the Eastwood undercoating is that nasty asphalt stuff that gets stains all over everything, but it really works well. Just don't get it on you, your clothes, the ground, your Bronco, your......whatever, or it will end up on your carpet, your walls, your kitchen, your....I think you get the idea. Don't ask me how I know.

Scott

 

[Cavalry]

I bought a cheapie rustproofing gun from jc whitney for about $30. comes with a bunch of wands and best of all plastic tubing with a nozzel so you can feed it in anywhere.

 

[boilermaker667]

por 15

I have completly power brushed my frame and blasted the spots I couldnt get to and por 15'd it, It came out great and the paint really doesn't crack when hit with a hammer.

 

[MattMoe]

Just an idea, I have a friend that makes iron gates and fences. When they paint them, they just dip them into a tank that is in the ground, that might be able to take the frame. I do not know weither it could be filled with an antirust type of paint or not, not to mention the cost of all that paint. Just a brain fart at 2 am %)

 

[trailpsycho]

Check into Hot Dip Galvanizing. Its really not that expensive. The frame will easily last another 40 years. There is a minimum "set-up fee" of $250 at the plant my buddy works for. Since they are used to doing industrial scale runs, there shouldnt be much, if any additional cost. After it is galvanized, they are using their polyurethane "core coating" on top, which is done at another site; its used for high stress/high wear applications. Retail on both the dip and coating should cost about $500-600. Not a bad investment for something that will last 50-75 yrs. If it gets scratched, etc, who cares...its galvanized...a little cold galvanizig compound or some paint and forget it. You would need to rechase any threads after dipping and make sure all welding to the frame is done prior to dipping.

 

[eds66bronco]

Check into Hot Dip Galvanizing. Its really not that expensive. The frame will easily last another 40 years. There is a minimum "set-up fee" of $250 at the plant my buddy works for. Since they are used to doing industrial scale runs, there shouldnt be much, if any additional cost. After it is galvanized, they are using their polyurethane "core coating" on top, which is done at another site; its used for high stress/high wear applications. Retail on both the dip and coating should cost about $500-600. Not a bad investment for something that will last 50-75 yrs. If it gets scratched, etc, who cares...its galvanized...a little cold galvanizig compound or some paint and forget it. You would need to rechase any threads after dipping and make sure all welding to the frame is done prior to dipping.

does anyone have any info on doing this on the east coast (boston area)
i talked about doing that on my wife's project, as it will be a year round daily driver up here in the rust belt. does the process remove rust prior to dipping or does it just get converted in the hot dip process?

 

[trailpsycho]

Its best to have the frame sand blasted ahead of time, to make sure everything is clean. Then it goes into an HCl (hydrochloric acid bath) vat (I think they may have other acid etch baths too--not sure; he has mentioned the HCl as the primary etch bath) for several minutes to etch the metal and make it 'clean', then it is taken out (I am not sure if it is rinsed or not) and then dipped in the molten zinc at 800-900 degrees. They may do multiple dips, then it is "cleaned up" which I am not sure what this is. THis pretty much completes the galvanizing process.

The Core-coating, I have little knowledge of. I asked about PC and paint options. PC will extend the life of galvanized steel by 1.5-3X the life expectancy of galvanizing alone...(35-50 yrs in heavy industrial applications). My friend commented that they have their own paint shop and that they spray a polyurethane based material at 300-400 degrees thats very durable and works well with the galvanizing...typically on poles and items that will receive alot of abrasion and wear...as the galvanizing can be rubbed/sanded off in day to day applications. I said that sounds like Line-x almost...he wasnt sure who manufactured it...but that it was tough. He said since its done in house that they may be able to work me a deal instead of having to go to a PC-er. For me its about function, it doesnt have to be PC or look fantastic, just look good and last. You may want to look into this site...it allows you to predict the longevity of the HDG process and has a galvanizer locator for all 50 states. I hope this helps. You may need to call a couple of PC-er to find one who is familiar with PC on HDG...one place the guy was stupid, the other he knew right away what I wanted, why and gave me a decent price....but I will probably go with the Core-Coat...I am hoping to see some pics first. Good luck.

John

http://www.galvanizeit.org/showContent,80,112.cfm

 

[73stallion]

as said by the great unclebap;

buy a couple of ferrets!

 

[eds66bronco]

cool to know! thanks for the link

 

[ddrass]

Check into Hot Dip Galvanizing. Its really not that expensive. The frame will easily last another 40 years. There is a minimum "set-up fee" of $250 at the plant my buddy works for. Since they are used to doing industrial scale runs, there shouldnt be much, if any additional cost. After it is galvanized, they are using their polyurethane "core coating" on top, which is done at another site; its used for high stress/high wear applications. Retail on both the dip and coating should cost about $500-600. Not a bad investment for something that will last 50-75 yrs. If it gets scratched, etc, who cares...its galvanized...a little cold galvanizig compound or some paint and forget it. You would need to rechase any threads after dipping and make sure all welding to the frame is done prior to dipping.

Where's your buddy's plant at? So, does the CC extend the galvanizing longer than powdercoating? What's the expected life of galvanized?

 

[trailpsycho]

Yeah, the CC is supposed to extend the life of the galvanizing...my understanding is 1.5-2.5X. The life expectancy of galvanized steel is variable depending on the thickness of the zinc layed on and the environment that it does its duty in. Short is: I have heard/read as little as 10 yrs and as long as 30; combine that with a properly prepped and painted and it goes to 1.5-2, with a properly prepped and powdercoated 1.5-3X and with the CC maybe the same or a little less than the powdercoating...at least as good as the paint, but more durable. The problem is you cant just HDG steel and then paint it or PC, it needs to be properly prepped. As I understand it- unless the paint/PC is done very quickly after the dipping, the coating needs to be slightly blasted to get back to bare zinc (remove any forming oxides) which will allow the paint/PC to stick properly. The oxides are what cocoons the steel and becomes the durable rust protectant, but they also inhibit the paint/PC from adhering properly. Hence, they have to take it down to raw zinc and etch it so the PC/paint/coating stays. I am still trying to get more technical info from him about the CC.

My friend does sales for two plants; one in Louisville, KY and one in Nashville, TN. The plant in Nashville also owns a "paint shop" where they spray their "Core Coat" on some of their jobs that require it. Its probably not necessary, but I asked him about paint options and if they had any contacts with a painter...he mentioned this, so now I will be driving the extra 2+ hrs to Nashville (instead of Louisville) to get it done over two days.

Here is another link from that other site... http://www.galvanizeit.org/showContent,80,112.cfm
This page allows you to calculate the life expectancy of HDG only...I went through and used upper end figures (high salinity, high humidity, high ambient temp, outside, etc) and it spit out 41 yrs. The site has its own disclaimer, but hell, even if its 50-60% accurate...then I am in good shape with a proper top coat.

I know there was a diesel conversion site for Range Rovers that popped up on one of the threads (a diesel thread- I think). I went and checked out one of the conversion companie's web sites (they are up in the North East--maybe Maine or the like) and they were touting their HDG frame as the be all end all of Range Rover-dom. They put no secondary coating on it. I am mostly going for functional aesthetics--black instead of zinc. Its probably not necessary.

FYI: This is not the same site I mentioned above, but here are some links; keep in mind the second link is in British pounds, so I think its about 1.7-1.8X that price to convert to dollars. http://www.dap-inc.com/homeframe.htm bottom of page
http://www.dap-inc.com/homeframe.htm OOPS! I guess it only goes to their main page...anyway you can surf it if you want to ride...~$2800! But with RR, everything is expensive.

I will try to get more info as I can. My buddy is also getting married in June, so for him to arrange this for me or plan anything extra and get too diverted on side-projects is asking alot. As I get more info and have contact with the process, materials, etc; I will come back and let you guys know...if there is interest. I like knowing my Bronco will outlast me...I am sure some of you would too. Right now this is on schedule for the 3rd or 4th w/e of March, so it will be a little while before its done. I will post pics and contact info then.

John

 

[trailpsycho]

Everything you could want to know about Galvanizing with regard to Duplex systems (galvanizing and paint or PC). Hope this helps.

www.galvanizeit.org/resources/files/AGA PDFs/PT_DS_98.pdf

SH!T, the PDF didnt take right...here is how I found it: Go to Yahoo.com, then search Duplex Galvanizing...then look for the URL above from that .org website (it was result #4 for me)...its a 20 page PDF file that has alot of great info. Hope this gets you guys some good info.

STRIKE THAT, I messed with the URL and it worked!! Enjoy.

John

 

[ddrass]

Thanks John! I'm definately going to look into this.

 

[andeez]

hot dip galvanizing

i was sold on getting my 76 frame hot dipped galvanized. salesman on the phone told me to bring it on and they could do it for around $130.00. i had it sandblasted because it was very dirty. drove 100 miles to drop it off and the manager came out to talk to me about a few things. one was that the galvanize dip temp was very close to the temp for stress relieving steel. he had noticed that i was very upset and told me that he would rather see me mad for him telling me what it could do versus showing me what would happen. he said evrything they dip will bend. somethings less than others and somethings it does not matter.

i personally took his advice as it is a very big operation. and came back home where i have been painting myself and sometimes my frame with por-15. i am doing the inside. i taped the holes and poured in one end and out the other. it is very messy and i am wasting some very expensive paint. i believe that the por -15 is very good as it will not wash off skin. if it will stick to the frame half as much as it is to my elbow , the frame will never rust. if you do hot dip galvanize and it works for you then that ,to me, is the best thing to do. i hope you do not have any of the issues that were presented to me.

the manager at the galvanize place did not want to see it get distorted. so much that he was not going to even offer me to sign a waiver not making them liable.

lol

 

[trailpsycho]

Man-

You got sold some BS. We are talking about a fully boxed frame. The Zinc pot is at ~800-850, well below the critical point for steel of this thickness. Sheet-metal would be a problem, but not something as thick and reinforced as a Bronco frame. Mine turned out great. Here is what it looks like done: After installing new stuff, then sandblasted and wrapped for travel, then before, after, and then sweep-blasted and polyurethaned.

It almost looked chromed. over the last 3 months, it has sat outside and still looks pristine inside the frame-rails.

 

[76 bronco J]

----man that dipped galvanized frame looks good, ford should have did that--- I know the zinc spray I use isn't close to that ,but this is a cheap not have to take the truck all apart alternative & seems to get the job done

 

[trailpsycho]

I sent these and other pics to a member in NC when he contacted me on BFix; I had been meaning to post them for a while. Like me, this other member has been trying to figure out how to get the inside of the frame for a while.

I thought about what Andeez resorted too and I realized that I would spend as much money pouring-the POR, and brushing options sounded very messy...when one of my best-buds from HS who happened to be in the galvanizing industry took a new job only a few hours away instead of 7 hours, I knew it was ON. Hot-dip galvanizing is hands down the best way to get everywhere on your frame and to protect the inside...in an industrial application with the mil-thickness I have; its "rated" at 15-25 years. With an appropriate top-coat, it extends the life from 1.5-3X that...so for paints (1.5-2Xs) and powder-coating (2-3X). Maybe I should compile the info I have and some links into one of those FAQs.