Inspection pics, things to look for in gear swap

[guidoverduci]

Is there a trick to getting the axle seals in? Or will the bearings push them in far enough?

 

[DirtDonk]

No, you have to install them all the way. The bearing never touches the seal once it's in place.

The usual suspects are used typically. Short of having a seal installer set, you need to find an appropriate sized socket, or tube, or even piece of wood (not optimal, but it's been done successfully many times with care) and use that to hammer the seal carefully into place.

A good practice is to clean the surface first of course, but then apply some silicone sealer either to the seal prior to installation, or a bead of it along the edge after the fact.
Yes, seals usually have that orange or green or whatever colored seal/lube coating on the outside, but this is not always enough.
If your seal surface in the housing is pristine, probably not an issue. If not pristine though, some sealer is your friend.

Tap it in carefully (and straight) until you feel/hear it seat all the way down.
Then before you install the axle shaft lube the seal and the shaft slightly to help keep from nicking the seal edge with the axle.
Support the axle the best you can the entire way in, until the bearing is going into it's pocket. This is to keep the weight of the axle shaft off of the seal rubber, and from any rough surfaces of the axle from damaging the seal.

You know... Basic stuff, but without the fancy tools.

Paul

 

[guidoverduci]

Thanks Paul! I found a pipe I had lying around, fit perfectly. Now another issue... the axle shop is telling me that they are confused. My old bearings are self contained oil sealed, and the new ones (which look like the ones on the WH website) are not. He said they are A10 bearings. He’s confused because the seal in the housing blocks the oil from the bearing and he’s not sure what we’re missing to lube the replacement bearing.. make sense?

 

[DirtDonk]

Ok, that's different. Only the original sealed bearings use an inner seal. The Set-20 tapered roller bearings have their own outer seal and the shop is correct, the gear lube needs to be able to reach and lubricate the new bearing for the life of the unit. But didn't we determine (sort of?) that you had something else?
Maybe the conversion bearing needs lubrication, but I don't know that. Maybe others can confirm.

I did not read back through to see what bearings you were using, and when you asked about the seal I simply went with the stock in my mind. But now reading through it, was it ever determined what part number you replaced it with? Is it tapered, or is it sealed?

Sealed ball bearings use the seal pressed into the housing. Exposed tapered roller bearings use no seal in the housing.

What is it that you have? (edit: I see you said A10 but when I read that at first I thought you said they "looked like A10's" but I see now that is what they used)

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Nevermind, I see you said A10 is the bearing.

Paul

 

[guidoverduci]

My old seal was in the housing. I ordered replacement seals from WH, and they look the same, and fit into the housing. So does that mean I’ve got the wrong replacement bearings? The shop couldn’t find the same ones I had on there originally.

 

[DirtDonk]

Your early pictures show a seal in there originally. I'm guessing now, that this would be the cause of the failed bearing in the first place. No lubrication.

The inner seal should not have been left in there when the new axles and bearings were installed in the first place, and the wheel bearing overheated and failed.

Did you find a seal in the other side as well? If so, sounds like it's time to remove it if you have not already, and inspect the other bearing very closely. Or just replace it as well no matter what. It could already have overheated, and simply had not failed yet.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Well the seals are correct for a Ford 9" housing, and as you found they fit. But they're used ONLY for sealed roller bearings.

Are you saying that the bearings the guy installed are not the same ones that came off?
Either way, if the new bearings fit, and the new bearings are tapered rollers (which the A10/Set-10 should be) then you no longer need the seals. Just as the mechanic was saying.
I can't say for the old bearings, as I've never messed with the conversion bearings. Maybe Jim can comment on their proper installation when he gets back to the computer after attending another weekend Bronco event.

But that's for the old stuff. If the new stuff is tapered, remove the seal.
If you did it to both sides, remove both seals.

Paul

 

[guidoverduci]

He hasn’t installed anything yet cause of the confusion. He wasn’t able to find the same conversion bearing, that’s how he ended up with A10. I think I understand mostly what you’re saying. Except one thing, with new tapered bearings and old seal removed,
What stops the oil from leaking out?

 

[DirtDonk]

Good question. But like the Set-20, the A-10 should theoretically have it's own integrated "outer" seal.
Look at the pic of the Set-20 here: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tapered_Roller_Bearing/bronco_rear_axle
See the item at the top? That's a cover/cap/seal/thingy that seals both on the axle surface and the outer housing surface.
But instead of sealing farther in, like the standard seal does, it seals the outer perimeter of the bearing surface at the outer edge of the housing.

But the Set-20 requires some special retainers too, which hold it tight, but not putting too much pre-load on it. The issue is the Set-20 is a wide bearing and actually sits proud of the housing end.
It's how Ford did it (the Set-20 was factory installed on heavier duty applications like full size Broncos and F150's) but they never changed the housing end. It was just a standard big-bearing end with an extra wide bearing.
I don't know how the A-10 sets up, or if it sticks proud of the housing.

The issue becomes too much preload on the bearing. They still work, and sufficient lubrication likely keeps them cooler than they otherwise would, but I don't know what might happen on an extended trip at higher speeds, or with heavier loads on them.

It sounds like your guy knows the basics. Maybe they know that an A10 can be set up properly, and has the correct retainer plate.
The one from Ford for the Set-20 has a slight "dome" shape to accommodate the wider bearing, rather than being flat like our originals were.

And speaking of using sealant, when you're sure it's all going to fit properly, some people have had good luck using sealant around the outer edge where the new seal is too. I suppose it depends again, on the condition of the housing end.
Yours looks good in the pics, but I would inspect it very closely.

Sorry you're having to go through all this rigamarole. But until someone can chime in with the definitive version of how A-10 bearings are set up, that's what we have to go on.
The one thing we do know for sure is that the tapered bearings are lubed by gear lube, so do not use the inner seal. Instead they have their own seals as part of the assembly.

Paul

 

[guidoverduci]

Ok, mostly clear. To me, it sounds like I need a different retainer plate and the axle guy is thinking the same thing. I’m looking on google now- let me know if you have an idea of what plate it is. Thanks!