knocking/squeaking sound front of engine. SOLVED!

[Teal68]

Congrat's!! One problem down.

 

[bluebronco69]

didnt work on mine yet, got a shed built in the backyard, maybe this weekend
glad you got it sorted out

 

[SteveL]

Any chance something came loose in the alt? Just thinking you said no belt no noise.

 

[bluebronco69]

bringing this back because i never figured it out.
will work on it more this summer.
balancer looks good, doesn't have any play.
i will probably take off the belts again and see what happens, the alternator is used from the JY so who knows the miles.

 

[bluebronco69]

here is the latest.

took off the power steering belt. noise is the same. (this eliminates the PS pump)
took off the alternator belt and put the power steering belt back on. noise is about the same a bit quieter (this eliminates the alternator)

took off both belts and the noise is almost gone, but a bit quieter...

the alternator belt has more wrap around the crank pulley i think that is why the noise is the same without the PS belt on there.

the waterpump was replaced last summer, with no change in the noise, so what does this mean? there is no real play int he lower pulley when i pry on it, so i would think the harmonic balancer is ok...
?

could the timin chain or gears make any noise like this?

 

[DirtDonk]

At this point (a year later basically) I would just pull the cover and find out. But before you do, here are a couple of other things to look at.

While you're in there prying things around, test the crankshaft end-play to see if there is excessive movement. Sounds unlikely, since you would probably have noticed something like that while you were prying on the crank damper to see if it or it's pulley was loose. But you never know...
So just give it a quick check with your pry tool.

Next, there's a pretty easy way to see just how much play is in the timing chain. Pop the distributor cap off, turn the crankshaft one way until you see the rotor move, then turn it back the other way to see how much slop is in the chain.
It helps to do this with the timing marks at the pointer, so you can actually see how many degrees of slop it takes before the rotor starts to turn again.

That's all I've got for now. Didn't re-read the whole thread, but did you ever get a video that we can check out to hear the noise up close and personal like?

Paul

 

[bluebronco69]

i will check again for any end play on the crankshaft, but it didnt appear to move in and out.
the timing chain is a good idea to check out too, i will see what i find out.

i will also try getting a video with the sound. sorry about getting back to it after a year...


another thought, that about the oil type? been using modern 10W-30
but should i be using something with more zinc? like the diesel truck oils? could this be causing some noises?
everything still runs out fine, plenty of power.

 

[DirtDonk]

..been using modern 10W-30
but should i be using something with more zinc? like the diesel truck oils? could this be causing some noises?
everything still runs out fine, plenty of power.

I'd have to say yes. Based on enough reports of disaster with older engines, I'd stick with high-zinc oils only. Or at least additives that do the same thing. Easier with the oil though, I would think.

And while it's possible the noise could come from some sort of damage, it would be very out of character for the noise to come so noticeably and yet still have power (no flat cam lobes in other words) and smooth running.
Usually it's the cam lobes that suffer the damage from low zinc, not the bearings or chains. The lobes are the most stressed surface in an engine like ours I think.

So I'm still not sure. Just out of my personal experience range. Will wait to hopefully hear something in a video if you're able to do that.
In the meantime, a way to find out if the oil is too thin or zinc an issue, would be to add some STP or Motor Honey to the existing oil to see if the sound changes at all. In other words, not just any oil additive, but one of the super thick "viscosity improver" types.

Usually can't hurt, and an easy way to see if there is anything going on with the oil. Well, easier than pulling a front cover anyway!

Paul

 

[bluebronco69]

thanks for the advice, plan of action now is to put the belts back on tomorrow, get a video for you all, and then change the oil (need to anyways) and put in something with more zinc. and go from there

 

[bluebronco69]

here is a link to the video i took today
https://goo.gl/photos/mG5YPBRNh1UrrT8a6

you can here the knocking sound it makes, sometimes kind of a faint squeek, this is on high idle/choke, then in the second part of the video i take it down to idle (about 750 or 800 rpm) at the end of the video you start to hear the slight exhaust leak i have at the header, but just ignore that part.

any ideas?
you can see the pulleys spinning nice and true.

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks. Naturally it would not play for me. Takes me to google something or other, shows a thumbnail of the vid, but when it tries to play it just goes all snowy and says "invalid parameters" or something to that effect?

Got a fix?

Paul

 

[bluebronco69]

Ok. I will work on that. Took the vid on my phone. Posted it and then tested it on my pc. Will check it out

 

[bluebronco69]

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=SkpLbm9RYnp3alc0R1R0eDFsczFRdEZxMUZHWXJn

Try that

 

[mpboxer]

Same here, video freezes up on me about 2 seconds into it. What about youtube?

 

[blubuckaroo]

Sounds like a broken motor mount.

 

[bluebronco69]

https://youtu.be/R6BsUZkldOE

 

[Rustytruck]

That doesn't sound like a bad timing chain. Timing chains have a buzz like a chain saw rhythm.

If its not a bad engine or tranny mount I would get some insulated pliers and pull one plug wire at a time while running.

Pull one and it should make it run worse but the noise should still be there. Put the wire back on and check the next one. If you get to a bad hole you will pull the wire and notice no motor change meaning you have no spark. If you pull it and the motor runs worse but the clunk goes away means the spark is working but you have an issue below. At that point I would pull all the plugs and wire the carb wide open and do a compression check on all cylinders.

I am not trying to worry you, There are allot of reasons you can have that clunk. It doesn't seem to have an internal rhythm more like a harmonic problem. I would put the motor top dead center No.1 looking at where the rotor in the distributor is pointing and then look down at the timing marks and see if the harmonic balancer outside ring is in the proper place.
These checks are free and doesn't cost anything but time. As for the new water pump I would bolt the fan on and grab it out by the blade tips while not running and try to wiggle it. Out there you have leverage and you can feel movement.

 

[bluebronco69]

Thanks for the ideas. I will give those a shot too

 

[bluebronco69]

Ok so I pulled one plug wire at a time, engine speed changed but the noise was consistent. This was across all plug wires.
Set the engine with the rotorpointed at the #1 spot on the dust. Cap and the pictures below show where the timing pointer is. Over 30 BTC....see pictures in link
https://goo.gl/photos/Fy4W1MeGjfvvYMXw5

 

[bluebronco69]

Another note. When I started it up today on full choke(high idle) it made more of a chirping sound with the knocking. The chirping faded away.
I am wondering more of it is the balancer...?