Koenig winch mid drive shaft support bushing tolerances

[Bustedbroc]

74 EB, (purchased 10/23), 302 with what looks like a factory/dealer installed Koenig winch. I have never tested winch but it is all there and appears visually in good condition. Pulled driveshaft off to clean up, paint, and replace u-joints. There is a support bracket approx mid way with a bronze kinda football shaped bushing with two small holes in it that is clamped in between two plates on that bracket. The round part of the driveshaft passes thru the bushing. The bracket itself has a grease fitting on it and I assume one of the bushing holes should be aligned with that fitting to allow grease to pass thru the bushing and get grease on the shaft.

My question is: What clearance should there be between the ID of the bushing and the driveshaft that passes thru it? It is kinda sloppy but that may be normal considering on how often a winch is really used and the design. The inside of the bushing does not seem to be really worn or egg shaped.
Does anyone out there know? And if I need to replace that bushing where would I ever find one? Thanks in advance. FM

 

[Broncobowsher]

I don't recall seeing a shaft passing through a bushing. I always remember it being a bearing. But you are dealing with aftermarket installed by anyone with any level of skill. Using any number of parts from any possible source.

If the shaft is flopping around, there is a problem. It should be free to spin, and that is it. Maybe they installed it with a bronze bushing and figured it won't get used that much and if someone actually greased it, it would be good long enough for it to be sold and the next person can deal with it. Or the bearing went out and the bronze bushing was a creative fix. Anything is possible. Sounds like you are dealing with something that is worn out. Exactly what that something is, well it is generic aftermarket parts and nothing specific.

 

[Bustedbroc]

I hear you. I was questioning the slop. The bracket, and bushing setup doesn't look like they just pulled it out of a parts bin is what has me confused. It would be nice to have a pic of an actual installed winch setup on a EB or a exploded parts diagram. I will post some pics once my contributor status gets updated. Thanks, FM

 

[Bustedbroc]

FYI, your calling it a bearing, is it a sealed ball bearing? Can't tell from this brochure page that another member posted but the bracket appears the same. I mean, what is what the brochure calls a "self aligning" bearing?

 

[Broncobowsher]

I'll have to dig through my junk parts, I think I have one, probably in poor shape.

 

[DirtDonk]

The “self aligning” aspect could be the reason for the football shape.
The shaft is probably meant to be a slightly loose fit, but the bushing itself is able to rock in the mount slightly.
Is this the case, or is it rigidly held in position in the mount?

 

[Bustedbroc]

OK, found this online. It is for a Willys Jeep but the same design except for the actual bracket that bolts to the Ford frame. If you scroll down thru the pics you can see that the "football" bearing/bushing is held between two conical metal plates that are bolted to the bracket which has a grease fitting. Hard to tell from the pics what the clearance is between the bearing and the shaft but it doesn't appear to be much. I would like to replace the "bearing" but where would I find one? And why self aligning? Seems to me everything should be in a fixed position so no need to self align.

’62 Willys Koenig winch Model 100 and “other” | Classic Cars and Tools

Good morning y'all! dne' here with the story about a winch;) Not me! As my followers may know, I've been working on a '62 Willys jeep which just happens to have a Koenig Model 100 winch on it. The winches of those days and prior where an incredible invention. I guess they didn't have electric

www.classiccarsandtools.com

 

[Bustedbroc]

OK, found this online. It is for a Willys Jeep but the same design except for the actual bracket that bolts to the Ford frame. If you scroll down thru the pics you can see that the "football" bearing/bushing is held between two conical metal plates that are bolted to the bracket which has a grease fitting. Hard to tell from the pics what the clearance is between the bearing and the shaft but it doesn't appear to be much. I would like to replace the "bearing" but where would I find one? And why self aligning? Seems to me everything should be in a fixed position so no need to self align.

’62 Willys Koenig winch Model 100 and “other” | Classic Cars and Tools

Good morning y'all! dne' here with the story about a winch;) Not me! As my followers may know, I've been working on a '62 Willys jeep which just happens to have a Koenig Model 100 winch on it. The winches of those days and prior where an incredible invention. I guess they didn't have electric

www.classiccarsandtools.com

After actually reading the article it seems I may have a hard time finding replacement Ujoints that fit. I am certainly having a hard time trying to knock them out.

 

[Broncobowsher]

It might be easier to just replace the complete U-joint. Typically they are just industrial supply house parts. Quick check of my go to for way too many unicorn parts https://www.mcmaster.com/products/universal-joints/high-torque-single-u-joints-8/

 

[DirtDonk]

The self aligning feature might be to help compensate for torque, twisting the frame and other parts.
That’s a long driveshaft between the transfer case, and the front bumper. Or the rear bumper in the case of a drilling auger.
When being worked hard, even though the transfer case is usually in neutral, the other end is often under a heavy load and is going to twist the bumper, transmission, t-case, all within the confines frame

 

[Bustedbroc]

The self aligning feature might be to help compensate for torque, twisting the frame and other parts.
That’s a long driveshaft between the transfer case, and the front bumper. Or the rear bumper in the case of a drilling auger.
When being worked hard, even though the transfer case is usually in neutral, the other end is often under a heavy load and is going to twist the bumper, transmission, t-case, all within the confines frame

OK, so here are some pics. Nothing appears really worn or out of shape yet the bearing fits loosely in the bracket clamp and fits loosely on the shaft. You can see the shaft measures .875 inch whereas the ID of the bearing measures .900 inch. Can this actually be the design or am I missing something? Thoughts appreciated.

 

[Bustedbroc]

Maybe I just have the incorrect bronze bearing?

 

[Bustedbroc]

It might be easier to just replace the complete U-joint. Typically they are just industrial supply house parts. Quick check of my go to for way too many unicorn parts https://www.mcmaster.com/products/universal-joints/high-torque-single-u-joints-8/

good source, thanks.

 

[DirtDonk]

I would also say it’s the wrong size. Possibly a replacement at some point in its life?
Or maybe somebody grabbed the wrong one off the shelf originally?
Wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened.
It’s always possible that it’s correct. Just doesn’t seem like it.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I don't recall ever seeing one that was just a bronze bushing riding on a shaft. I'm going to say that was the economy version and is wore out.
Maybe a new bearing? https://www.mcmaster.com/products/bearings/ball-bearings~/shaft-diameter~7-8/

 

[Bustedbroc]

I don't recall ever seeing one that was just a bronze bushing riding on a shaft. I'm going to say that was the economy version and is wore out.
Maybe a new bearing? https://www.mcmaster.com/products/bearings/ball-bearings~/shaft-diameter~7-8/

I agree. I called and spoke with Herm The Overdrive Guy, https://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/. He said they came with either bearing or bushing. Im going with it is just the wrong bushing for whatever reason because it doesn't look worn. A bearing like you suggested makes the most sense to me also. The hole in the bracket is 2" whereas the bearings are listed as 1 7/8". If I sandwich the bearing between the two plates Im thinking it should work for my purposes. It's not like I intend to use the winch daily, I just want it to work. Thanks all for getting my thoughts together.

 

[okie4570]

I've been meaning to take a pic of mine for comparison for you since you created this thread and haven't done so lol. It's sitting on a shelf in the shop, I'll do that this evening.

 

[Bustedbroc]

I've been meaning to take a pic of mine for comparison for you since you created this thread and haven't done so lol. It's sitting on a shelf in the shop, I'll do that this evening.

That would be very helpful. Thanks, FM

 

[okie4570]

That would be very helpful. Thanks, FM

Sorry that took so long. Definitely a brass bushing.

 

[Bustedbroc]

Sorry that took so long. Definitely a brass bushing.

Thanks. I am going to try and replace mine with this: