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locker question

dougsride

Full Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
199
getting ready to regear front and rear diffs. putting a detroit in the rear and either a arb or an ox locker in the front. leaning towards the arb but was wondering if any of you guys have used a ox locker and whats your opinion on them. i know the arb set up is tried and true. also when using the gear calculator should i use the physical measurement of tires diameter or the advertised size?
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,917
I run Detroit's front and rear. Completely automatic. No pumps, no airlines, no cables.
Get some Yukon super joints for your front chromoly axles for brute strength against the Detroit or any front locker and you're set.
I love my Detroit. All the "so called" squirlliness you hear about is BS. After a day or so of driving you don't even notice it. It just works.


And use actual tire size but it won't make that big of a difference.
Tell us what tire size, what tranny, what motor and your intended use and we will all give you our gearing opinion, lol....
 

Apogee

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
6,062
I've only ever driven a 78/79 Bronco with a front OX locker in a D60...worked great. Was a bit of a PITA to set up initially with the cable actuator, and the cover interfered with his tie-rod and full lock, and it's one more thing to route around the ram-assist, but it works just like a spool when engaged and open when disengaged. He's turning 43" TSL SX's and tends to be a bit hard on the skinny pedal...it's going on 4-5 years now.

That said, I'm putting an ARB in my HP D44 as we speak, so I think both are great products and I don't think you can go wrong with either. The ARB's have seals which can and do fail, but they're not hard to change IMO.
 

Nobody

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,215
Loc.
Stanwood
I'd recommend putting the ARB in the rear to save your tires on the pavement. I really like and prefer the handling of a spool (locked ARB) in the rear too. I like automatic lockers in the front. You can steer AND have power to both tires at the same time. :eek:
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
817
OK, I'll muddy the waters. I would never have an automatic locker in the front of one of my vehicles again. When driving on snowy highways they are extremely dangerous. On the first lane change with a LockRight in the front of my '95 F-150, when the left front tire hit the ridge of snow between the lanes all of the torque going to the right front tire turned the steering a LOT, and before I could catch it the truck had jumped 10' to the left (fortunately into an empty lane). On the next lane change I thought I was ready for it and it only jumped 6' that time. I shifted into 2WD and never used 4WD on the highway again until I removed the LockRight.

At slow speeds I found it to be extremely annoying, but possibly worth it if you really wanted the traction and couldn't afford a selectable locker.

I've never had a selectable locker in the rear, but I think I'd really prefer an automatic locker there. I've had a Detroit in a CJ5 and my Bronco, and a LockRight in the rear of the F-150 as well. I find the street manners in a rear axle very easy to get used to and tolerate, and I love the "forget-about-it" nature, never having to unlock to get better steering and then relock for better traction. Although I still wouldn't recommend an automatic locker in the rear for a vehicle that will be driven by someone who doesn't want to learn how to drive it, and it's not my first choice (or even second or third) for heavy towing.

As far as ARB vs OX, I have no personal experience with either. I do have a friend who swears by the OX and swears at ARB (which he thinks should stand for All Ready Broken). But in magazines and on-line I hear almost all good things about both.
 

BUCKWILD

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2016
Messages
351
Loc.
Butte county
run the ARB the ability to turn with it unloked is huge i had a Detroit for a long time but now that i have air locking diffs it is much better and OX lockers require constant adjustment. I run ZIP lockers and would never go back. you cant turn with a locked front very well i run with the front unlocked untill i need it. both for that mater
 

rtj731

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
407
Nothing beats selectable lockers, both front and rear. ARB is race proven, OX is good. A car can only do three things, Go,Stop and Turn. Major factor on how well the vehicle accepts these commands is how the driver inputs these commands within the vehicles capabilities. Selectable lockers allow you the driver to adjust your vehicles capabilities to the terrain/conditions at hand. Make sense?
 

okie4570

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
9,297
Loc.
NW OK
Detroit in the rear, Spartan in the front. Like said above I've never experienced the squirreliness from the Detroit. Tried driving in slick conditions in 4x4 and the Spartan was frightening........so I unlocked one hub and problem solved.
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
817
The thing with automatic lockers, whether it's a Detroit, LockRight, Spartan or whatever, is that they never let either tire turn slower than the ring gear, but they always allow one tire to turn faster (to "overrun"). That means that when one tire loses traction and starts to spin it will drive the other tire at the same speed. This is good because it gives really positive traction.

However when you have traction and go around a corner the tires have to turn different speeds, with the outside tire going faster than the inside tire. In that situation an automatic locker allows the outside tire to overrun and only drives the inside tire (yes, contrary to popular rhetoric, an automatic locker is the only differential that actually gives you one wheel drive). That is where the handling quirks come from.

In the rear they are pretty noticeable, but generally very manageable. you'll get some minor torque steer as you push off only one side of the vehicle. Also it can be easy to spin the one driven tire if it doesn't have enough traction to drive the vehicle forward. This, at best, results in annoying tire squeal wheel starting around corners (why I don't recommend an automatic locker for heavy towing). At worst it can cause a spinout if you're on it hard enough that the outer tire breaks loose when the locker automatically reengages, which happens pretty harshly (why I don't recommend an automatic locker for someone like my wife).

In the front at high speeds they are very dangerous as I described above. At low speed they give the same characteristics as in a rear axle, but greatly magnified because of the steering and the additional traction due to the weight of the engine.

As you go around a right turn the left (outside) tire overruns, the locker drives only the right (inside) tire and the steering wheel pulls hard to the left, trying to straighten you out. Similarly, if you are driving straight and the left front rire loses traction the locker will keep driving the right front and the vehicle will pull left pretty hard. If you're going slow in either of these situations you can catch it before it gets you in trouble, but it's annoying.

If you combine the two situations and have low traction while going around a turn you'll tend to over power the tires, often spinning both of them, resulting in the vehicle going straight ahead rather than turning at all.

Unlocking one hub means you won't overpower both front tires so you won't plow out straight ahead as badly, but you'll get a lot of torque steer any time you get on and off the throttle, as the one side being driven pushes the steering one way or the other.


If you want really positive drive in the front axle, won't use 4WD at higher speeds, and are willing to accept the vehicle not wanting to turn in mud or snow, and jerking the wheel back and forth in your hands on less slippery surfaces, then an automatic locker can work.

If you want really positive drive in the front axle, aren't willing to deal with all of that but are willing to deal with turning a locker off and on, and are willing to pay more, a selectable locker is what you want.

On the other hand, if you want none of those issues (other than cost) and are willing to settle for only much better traction rather than really positive traction, a TrueTrac might be your best bet. Personally I still wouldn't recommend one for driving on a snowy freeway (no personal experience, and I'm sure it's WAY better than a locker, but it will still have some of the same characteristics), and if you lift a front tire in the air it won't drive the other tire (unless you ride the brakes a little). But other than snowy freeways or rockcrawling it's probably the least offensive option that will still give really good traction.
 

NC_Pinz

Jr. Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
138
I've done a TruTrac in the rear, and found it fine in snowy, icy conditions as long as you are a good driver. Applying throttle at the wrong time will make it step out.

I'm a fan of selectable lockers front and rear if you can afford it. I've had one situation where the rigs before me on a trail kept hitting a tree on a tight turn with a side slope that was slick. I reached down and unlocked the rear (they couldn't) and motored right around. Selectable means you can tune your drivetrain to best fit the situation your are driving in on the fly.
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,917
Got a chance to help a buddy switch entire rear ends in his Cherokee yesterday evening. Going from Detroit Locker to Tru-Trac...Yup backwards to most of us.

The Detroit Tru-Trac is very smooth though. I have never had one in the rear before but my buddy with this Cherokee just got a great deal on some axles....he went from a rear Detroit Locker to a rear Detroit Tru-Trac and it is now very smooth. It's quiet, and just "feels" good.
He is taking his trail toy and turning it into a mall crawler which is why he went from locker to limited slip. It was also time to gear up from 5.13 to 4.10's...Again...He is sort of downsizing...He and I just do not notice the quirkiness of our lockers anymore ....But after driving his Cherokee with a new rear Tru-Trac it is admittedly a different vehicle...
We may never know how well the rear Tru-Trac does off road since it is being taken off of trail duty but it sure is buttery smooth on the street.
This will now be the vehicle his daughter drives and takes her driving test in.
96 Cherokee
Now only a 3" lift and 31's.
A little trail scrapes but still nice.
I think she's a lucky young lady.
Her Mom wants her to get a car.
Her and her Dad want her to have Dad's old trail toy.
Fun times, lol
 

bmc69

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
11,878
Another big fan of the ARB front and TrueTrac rear setup. I've tried em all and the only one "better" was ARB in both front and rear.

As others have correctly noted...having an automatic locker in the front really kills trail maneuverability; I'd never want one in the front.
 

Seventee

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
997
Loc.
In the sticks of MT
A few case studies from me:

#1: I've run a TrueTrac in the back of my 79 F150 4x4 for almost 20 years. Much of that was daily driving in all conditions, plus some moderate wheeling. It's an excellent setup for all around use. Stabbing the gas on corners will chirp tires on asphalt, or get sideways on slick roads, so you just need to be aware of that and not drive stupid. Otherwise it is very smooth and you never know it's there until you need it. To my knowledge, I've never had one wheel spin when both were on the ground, and believe me I've tried in all sorts of circumstances like one tire on asphalt and one on gravel, etc.

#2: I toiled about what to put in my 70 Bronco, but ended up with a Detroit in the back and Lock-Right in the front due to some great deals on parts and being on a budget. This vehicle sees very little street use - mainly running down the highway to get gas or between trail heads. Most of my hard wheeling is in deep snow. The two downsides I experience are 1) the Bronco likes to crab-walk when snow wheeling on a side slope. A selectable supposedly helps cure this but don't have a comparison to make, and question if I would get as far to begin with trying to run an un-locked rear in that situation. I would like to try sometime though. 2) As Bill said, a non-selectable front can be a pain maneuvering on dry ground. Fortunately I don't do much wheeling on dry ground so it's manageable for me, but can imagine it's murder for guys on hard surface trails where it seems selectables would be a must have. Based on the way it acts, I'm certain I would never run a non-selectable locker in the front of a street vehicle if you ever intend to use 4x4. If I ever decide to make a change in this Bronco, it will be selectable front and rear. I have on board air now so likely will be ARBs.

#3: My wheeling buddy runs TrueTracs front and rear in his 79 Bronco. This has been a great setup for him as his truck sees a lot of street use and he claims he doesn't have any issues w/the front in the winter. He also is able to keep up with me in the snow. As said, the one downside to TrueTracs is when a tire comes off the ground, so probably not a good choice for a serious wheeler in off-camber situations. But his success leads me to believe I want to install one in the front of my 79 F-150.

Lastly, my 06 SuperDuty currently has an open rear. I've been contemplating installing something after driving it this winter. For my purposes, running a selectable is pointless in this vehicle because I might as well reach over and engage the 4x4 switch when I need extra traction. I would rather have something automatic, in which case I will probably install a TrueTrac since I've had such good luck in my 79.

So you really need to evaluate how you will be using your rig. It's can be difficult for another person to say what is better for your use.
 
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dougsride

dougsride

Full Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
199
thanks, guys i appreciate the feedback. lots to consider. my bronco is pretty much gonna end up a 50/50 machine as i hope to drive to trails and back but if breakage becomes an issue my powerstoke is ready to trailer it. i will mostly be hitting trails in uwharrie and other local places. i like to drive my truck around and when i set out to build it i kept my mind focused on the fact it was gonna be driven both in dirt and pavement and as much as possible cause i ain't gettin any younger .
 

-8

Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
451
Loc.
Lakeside
I like the ARB and I am leaning that way. They can be cable operated or pneumatic.
 

englewoodcowboy

Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,200
I would strongly consider the new E lockers for the front. You end up being $$ ahead as you do not need the extra expense of the compressor etc. and they are quiet and very reliable. Of when I ever decide to upgrade my front open diff, it will be getting an E Locker. In the rear I run Detroit True Trac. Much quieter over the old ratchet style locker and drive ability is smooth on tight turns until you hit the gas, then it quickly locks up and you will get a bit of bucking chirping, but again that only happens when I punch it in a turn. :)
 

Nothing Special

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
817
A TrueTrac never locks. It's a pretty effective limited slip, and yes it will spin both tires if you get on it enough rather than only roasting one. And from what I've heard and what I know of how they work they tend to be plenty good in any 'wheeling where you have both tires planted. But if you lift a tire you'll find out that it's not as positive as a locker. Still, it's a great diff and will be my first choice if/when better traction for my F-250 makes it up the priority list. But for my rock crawler / trail runner / daily driver Bronco I wouldn't give up the positive traction of a Detroit.
 

englewoodcowboy

Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,200
If I were building a bronco to do all and rock crawl then yes, I would not choose a truetrac but my opinion of that would be to have an e locker or air locker for both front and rear. I would want absolute control for locked or open when I needed it.
 
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