Looking for Shock Advice

[txtruk15]

I currently have a 5.5" WH lift with dual shocks at all corners. The shocks are looking dented, worn, and don't feel good on the road. Performance and ride are priority #1, looks priority #2, and price is priority #3. For driving time, it most like will be 80-85% road, 15-20% trail.

Thinking about replacing these with bilstein 5100s, I have them on my '15 Sierra 4x4 and like them a lot. The front dual shocks are pretty close to each other at the top, so I don't think I can do something bigger with dual shocks, although I thought about a single reservoir shock with the coil...

Would love some advice and options before I spend any money....

Here's the setup as is now...

 

[DirtDonk]

I think the Bilstein shocks would be a good idea too. Not sure if you should go singles though (which is the usual recommendation) with that much lift though. Might stick with duals, but ask about valving needs and if it would change.
Normally I would say yes, use slightly lighter valved shocks than the ones that most of us settle on for Broncos, but really it's going to come down to preference at this point.

How was the lift accomplished in the rear? Those look like stock style leaf packs and I don't see any blocks. Re-arched maybe? Shackle flip? Curious...
But either way, going with one of the more modern 11-leaf packs would go a long way to calming down the ride on the street I would think. But that depends on what those springs are now.

Interested to hear what others say about it as well.
In the meantime... Back to the top.

Paul

 

[dave67fd]

Ditto on the Bilstein's. If she's mainly street I would go with singles. You can always add to them if needed. I'll doubt you'll need to.

 

[bronconut73]

Well....actually you would want properly valved (ie softer) Bilsteins if you're going with duals, so adding to them later may not be possible unless you get the right valving from the jump, but you wouldn't want single shocks that were valved to be duals (it would prolly be too soft).

To stay singles but still have a thick valving stack, may be go with the 7000 series Bilsteins. They are rebuildable and you can change the valving to suit your needs.
This all starts getting really expensive quick. Keep researching it,.....you have Fox shocks to look at too.

 

[txtruk15]

....How was the lift accomplished in the rear? Those look like stock style leaf packs and I don't see any blocks. Re-arched maybe? Shackle flip? Curious...
But either way, going with one of the more modern 11-leaf packs would go a long way to calming down the ride on the street I would think. But that depends on what those springs are now.

Paul

thanks Paul - I agree, I think I need something different in the back than what's there now - maybe some good deaver leaf springs..

 

[txtruk15]

Well....actually you would want properly valved (ie softer) Bilsteins if you're going with duals, so adding to them later may not be possible unless you get the right valving from the jump, but you wouldn't want single shocks that were valved to be duals (it would prolly be too soft).

To stay singles but still have a thick valving stack, may be go with the 7000 series Bilsteins. They are rebuildable and you can change the valving to suit your needs.
This all starts getting really expensive quick. Keep researching it,.....you have Fox shocks to look at too.

love those Fox shocks, they perform well, wallet would take a bigger hit on those for sure lol!

 

[DirtDonk]

Only reason I was suggesting the continued use of the dual-shock setup on txtruk's rig is that it sounds like the 5.5" suspension is going to continue to be used. Frankly that's just a lot of lift for an EB on the street, and you could be well served by more shock absorber than normal just due to that lift.

Of course, the right single shock for general street running, PLUS adding anti-swaybars could be even better. But generally speaking you're better off with firmer "shocking" when running such a tall lift. Either that or reduce the height of the lift to a more street-friendly ride.
I know there are many here with the 4.5 and 5.5 inch lifts and are perfectly happy with the way they ride. But not everybody will be.

The existing steering box setup (2wd inboard mount) is saving your steering angles so that they're at least somewhat nominal. But you might consider tweaking that a little even if you're really going to put many miles on the rig. At the very least a custom trackbar riser to lower the overall angle a bit.
Because they're no longer of equal lengths, the trackbar and draglink don't have to be perfectly parallel either, but a little more parallel and a little less steep would both be good things for steering feel.

Paul

 

[txtruk15]

Only reason I was suggesting the continued use of the dual-shock setup on txtruk's rig is that it sounds like the 5.5" suspension is going to continue to be used. Frankly that's just a lot of lift for an EB on the street, and you could be well served by more shock absorber than normal just due to that lift.

Of course, the right single shock for general street running, PLUS adding anti-swaybars could be even better. But generally speaking you're better off with firmer "shocking" when running such a tall lift. Either that or reduce the height of the lift to a more street-friendly ride.
I know there are many here with the 4.5 and 5.5 inch lifts and are perfectly happy with the way they ride. But not everybody will be.

The existing steering box setup (2wd inboard mount) is saving your steering angles so that they're at least somewhat nominal. But you might consider tweaking that a little even if you're really going to put many miles on the rig. At the very least a custom trackbar riser to lower the overall angle a bit.
Because they're no longer of equal lengths, the trackbar and draglink don't have to be perfectly parallel either, but a little more parallel and a little less steep would both be good things for steering feel.

Paul

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense! I'm thinking of staying with the 5.5" and the 37s for now (inherited from the PO), although I've thought about a more conservative 3.5" and 35s...thats a good idea on the custom trackbar setup, I think that would help as the steering feels pretty wonky when going around corners...

 

[DirtDonk]

I was kind of wondering about that and hoped it would come up in the conversation.
While you're at it, you should mock up a new steering system in your head (or better to really mock it up on the vehicle) where you experiment switching over to a TRO (tie-rod over) setup.
Your angle on the draglink is not horrible now, but it's still a little steeper than is optimal and the TRO would help. And with a TRO and your lift you could still use an off-the-shelf riser perhaps to get your trackbar in a better lineup.

The TRO in your case would involve re-reaming the main tie-rod where the draglink mounts, and both knuckles/steering arms. It's not normally used with that steering box, but with this much suspension lift you have the room and always want the angles of the draglink and trackbar to be at the minimums possible with any given setup.

Just FYI in case you were not aware, it appears that you have a full-width front axle from a full-size F150 truck or '78/'79 Bronco. Along with an F150 style tie-rod and custom shortened F150 draglink to fit the new location of the steering box inside the frame.
Seems like a good setup, although there are other ways to skin that cat too, when it comes time to change it out for design or when it wears out.

So, angles of dangles count in Bronco steering. But once you get to the custom stage your Bronco is at (5.5 lift, custom steering box, custom linkage, etc) you are the one that has to come up with the custom steering and suspension linkage to make it all play nice together.
The only bad thing about the steering box location is that it shortens the draglink. But it's super strong, reliable and less expensive than most to repair/replace when it becomes necessary. But with your full-width axle, it does not become too short to overcome all the advantages of the setup.
And you still have the option of some off-the-shelf and semi-custom steering setups when it comes down to it.

Too bad we don't make a version of our fully adjustable tie-rod (http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tie_Rod_for_F150_Knuckles_Two_Way_Adjustable/Custom_tie_rods) in full-width lengths. We do make the Clydesdale (http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/CLYDESDALE-Tie-Rod-Drag-Link/Custom_tie_rods) just for situations like yours (tire size, etc.) but at this point I'm thinking that the Clydesdale is not needed while you have a good working F150 linkage.
But if it comes time to replace the existing stuff to fix any issues you run across in this build, it's a good option (even at the price level!) to keep in mind.

Good luck. Keep us informed as you go. Especially on the shock choices. Your results are good info for the next guy. Just like what others have already done will be good for this discussion when they see it and chime in with their results.

Paul

 

[gr8scott]

I love my new Bilsteins. Excellent ride quality, they look good, and they won't break the bank. Thanks again Wildhorses!

 

[blubuckaroo]

Tire size and weight plays an important part in shock absorber selection.
I think your 37" tires would be too big for single 5100 Bilsteins. Even with my 33s, they were just too mushy and handled poorly. I sent them back and replaced them with 70/30 Duffs.. They handle much better and cost way less.

 

[txtruk15]

I was kind of wondering about that and hoped it would come up in the conversation.
While you're at it, you should mock up a new steering system in your head (or better to really mock it up on the vehicle) where you experiment switching over to a TRO (tie-rod over) setup.
Your angle on the draglink is not horrible now, but it's still a little steeper than is optimal and the TRO would help. And with a TRO and your lift you could still use an off-the-shelf riser perhaps to get your trackbar in a better lineup.

The TRO in your case would involve re-reaming the main tie-rod where the draglink mounts, and both knuckles/steering arms. It's not normally used with that steering box, but with this much suspension lift you have the room and always want the angles of the draglink and trackbar to be at the minimums possible with any given setup.

Just FYI in case you were not aware, it appears that you have a full-width front axle from a full-size F150 truck or '78/'79 Bronco. Along with an F150 style tie-rod and custom shortened F150 draglink to fit the new location of the steering box inside the frame.
Seems like a good setup, although there are other ways to skin that cat too, when it comes time to change it out for design or when it wears out.

So, angles of dangles count in Bronco steering. But once you get to the custom stage your Bronco is at (5.5 lift, custom steering box, custom linkage, etc) you are the one that has to come up with the custom steering and suspension linkage to make it all play nice together.
The only bad thing about the steering box location is that it shortens the draglink. But it's super strong, reliable and less expensive than most to repair/replace when it becomes necessary. But with your full-width axle, it does not become too short to overcome all the advantages of the setup.
And you still have the option of some off-the-shelf and semi-custom steering setups when it comes down to it.

Too bad we don't make a version of our fully adjustable tie-rod (http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tie_Rod_for_F150_Knuckles_Two_Way_Adjustable/Custom_tie_rods) in full-width lengths. We do make the Clydesdale (http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/CLYDESDALE-Tie-Rod-Drag-Link/Custom_tie_rods) just for situations like yours (tire size, etc.) but at this point I'm thinking that the Clydesdale is not needed while you have a good working F150 linkage.
But if it comes time to replace the existing stuff to fix any issues you run across in this build, it's a good option (even at the price level!) to keep in mind.

Good luck. Keep us informed as you go. Especially on the shock choices. Your results are good info for the next guy. Just like what others have already done will be good for this discussion when they see it and chime in with their results.

Paul

This is REALLY good information, I really appreciate the education I'm getting. And I did not realize I had a F150 full width axle under there. If I stay with what I have, I feel like I need to change and use the TRO setup; that Clydsdale is massive and looks pretty good. I'm also leaning towards dual 5100s.

It seems like another option, although more expensive, may be to get to something that is more "normal" for a 70 bronco and ensure that the geometry is done up right due to parts that play well together from the start. If you were doing this from the ground up, what would you put under the front end to support this type of lift and tire/wheel size combo?

thx!

 

[Apogee]

I would run one shock, damped correctly for the application. I'm not a fan of sacrificing ride quality or suspension function by over-damping the system. If you need or want more thermal capacity, then I would look at running a single shock per corner with remote reservoirs.

 

[txtruk15]

I would run one shock, damped correctly for the application. I'm not a fan of sacrificing ride quality or suspension function by over-damping the system. If you need or want more thermal capacity, then I would look at running a single shock per corner with remote reservoirs.

Are you thinking maybe something like a single bilstein 7100 or a fox shock 2.5 with reservoir at each corner?

 

[bronconut73]

Are you thinking maybe something like a single bilstein 7100 or a fox shock 2.5 with reservoir at each corner?

I hope he talks you into that.
He and NSQTD our local shock guru's
Proper shock selection can make a huge difference in ride quality.

Once you get this far (ie 7100's, or Fox) you may want to consider coil overs for the front....just sayin' lol...Apogee can help you there too....

 

[DirtDonk]

...If you were doing this from the ground up, what would you put under the front end to support this type of lift and tire/wheel size combo?

Well first I would let others take a look at your overall setup and get multiple points of view. Let us see the whole truck and how it's set up the best you can with pics.
Some here would say that the full-width is the way to go. And in your case it might be best to stick with it. Depends on the rest of the setup and what you intend to do with the truck in it's every day life.

If a regular axle is the choice, then really the only choice is a stock 44 from a '71.5 to '77 Bronco. It's the only other "bolt-in" front end for an EB.
Those 37's are pushing the limit of what a 44 was ever meant to take, but whether it lives a long and happy life, or dies an early death whining all the way, will all depend on how you drive it.

The good news is that if you go to a standard width 44 you can sell the full-size and recoup some of your investment. Or you could decide simply to shorten what you have. This last option is more work, but might be the best option if you have trouble finding an EB 44. There's usually one around waiting to be bought though.

Others here will know if you even have the option of shortening the tubes and going that route. It might be more difficult if you have the cast-in wedges (for the C-bushings) vs the welded-on variety. I can't tell by the pic, but maybe some can. And also confirm too that you do indeed have a full-width. That's what it looks like to me, but more sets of eyes on the subject is the rule when basing big decisions on info from the internet!;D

Paul

 

[txtruk15]

I'm going to take some more pics and post them!

 

[txtruk15]

Hi all, here are some more pix of the setup I inherited - plz let me know if there are other angles or pix of parts I should upload in order to determine best course of action...thx!

 

[5001craig]

I was looking for bump stops but got some really good info on this thread regarding premium shocks from guys that have ran them:

What's the best bump stop?

Does the track bar lowering bracket look sound?

 

[partsloco]

I went to fox and it was one of the best upgrades I have ever done. I used to have dual rancho and it was stiff as hell. Now it feels soft like a modern truck.