Need engine advice in Maryland

[travis77]

Hey guys, it's been a while since I've been on here but I could really use some advice. Been kind of depressed I haven't been able to drive my '77 all summer. I was using a lot of water in the radiator last summer and didn't think about it when it got cold. First time I drove it this year I discovered the water in the engine had frozen and popped a freeze plug. (Idiot I know, i've been beating myself up about it) Took it to the shop and my mechanic sadly gave me the news my block is cracked and I verified the chocolate milk on the dipstick and white exhaust.

I'm a small business owner (Cabinetmaker) so the money comes and goes sometimes in large amounts and sometimes in small amounts and time is tight. Meaning I need to weigh the cost of replacing myself or having someone else do it. (I've done a lot of the work on it in the 15 years i've owned it, but i've never replaced an engine before) Where do I begin.

Stats: 302/c4/d20/mc 2150

My questions:

1. Does anyone know someone in Maryland that can swap a good engine into it at a reasonable price, and what is a reasonable price?

2. Is it worth trying it myself considering the above?

3. Is a 351 a direct fit if one is available at a reasonable cost?

4. Is a crate motor a good idea, and who do you recommend?

Thanks in advance,

Travis

 

[thegreatjustino]

Swapping an engine is a weekend job. One day to take the old one out, one day to put the new one in. Pretty simple for anyone who's done most of their own work on their Bronco.

 

[Pa PITT]

I don't think any motor is a direct drop in. I hate to say that. If your thinking of doing it your self. Now someone like me who has installed 40 different motors in my life. IT SEEMS THAT even when you know where every bolt goes & what wrenches you'll need. There seems to always be something that wants to be twicked a bit.
A genuine mechanic will know what he needs to do to fix that situation.
.......
AS FOR AS Prices I'd allow 20 hours times What ever the shop you find hourly wage is.
We have a lot still at 65.00 an hour but we have one or two up at about 120.00 per hour.
..........
... Crate motors .. Will I'd not put a 4000.00 motor in a 2000.00 Bronco But if I plan for my Bronco to be a 20K bronco then the new crate motor would be a possibly.
............
I hope my thoughts help a little .

 

[Timmy390]

You will always save money if you do it yourself. I've found that to be true even on jobs that require a special tool to be bought such as an engine hoist......

My questions:

1. Does anyone know someone in Maryland that can swap a good engine into it at a reasonable price, and what is a reasonable price? Cant help on this one. haven't lived in MD in 20 plus years

2. Is it worth trying it myself considering the above? Yes and twice on Sunday.

3. Is a 351 a direct fit if one is available at a reasonable cost? No it's not a direct fit and there are many variables to sort out. No 351W install is the same. A 1 inch BL really helps stuff it in there. Also other things to consider......

4. Is a crate motor a good idea, and who do you recommend? Because you need a new block, I say yes this is a good idea. I've never bought on so can't say what's best but when I was looking at doing so, I was leaning towards www.promarengine.com

Tim

 

[Lunar-tic]

I got something like this from ATK several years ago, it's not bad for the price. I think this one is actually better than the one I got. You'll just need to swap your oil pan and pickup tube. All of this you can do, as said earlier, over a weekend in your driveway. Even if you have to buy/rent some tools, it will be way cheaper than paying someone in the DMV area to do it for you.

http://www.high-performance-engines.com/ford-302-drop-in-engine-68-74-crate-engine-p/hp99f.htm

 

[Remos69]

If you are going to buy one from ATK, let them install the pan as it may be little or no cost (just call). Unlike Promar, the do not require a servicable core to be returned.

 

[Master Chief]

There are quite a few folks in Bronco Nation near you. Have you thought about doing a shout out to them and enjoy a wrenching weekend?

 

[SteveL]

A carbed 351w for a 302 is pretty straight forward. A couple small adapters for alternator and ps pump. Headers may or may not work depending on brand. Possible hood clearance issues depending on intake and air cleaner combo but it can fit under a stock hood.

 

[bmc69]

My shop is about 2 hours south of you. We're taking on a few vehicle projects for "winter work" and could shoot you a cost estimate once I know exactly what level of fit and finish you are looking for.

 

[jcasey12]

you can get a rebuilt/remanufactured long block surprisingly cheap and with a good warranty if you check around. Last year I bought one for $1250. THey did need a core but it could be in any condition (mine was not rebuildable but they accepted it). I did the work myself. A direct replacement so no issues with the install. I would definitely try to do it myself----perhaps with a friend who's more experienced. Otherwise you're looking at bucks.

 

[pipeline010]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bpf30216c/overview/make/ford

that's what I'm looking at for a replacement when the time comes.

It's a 302 with quite a bit more pep, below that of a 351 obviously but is as 'direct fit' as you can go with an upgrade. the ATK hp99f linked above is a great option as a standard replacement and I'm told they way undervalue the horsepower they are offering.

If my current 302 didn't have good top dressings on it (manifolds, distributor/coil, wires, plugs, etc) I'd definately go with the ATK. If you've got stuff on your current engine you can re-use and want to feel a fair difference for all that work, as I do, go for the HO.

I have a good relationship with a local mechanic and will, when the time comes, drive to his place and wrench with him for the weekend. $500 was the offer and he seemed to think that was reasonable. If something went really sideways I may tip out more. But I'm expecting a few fitment issues and that's why I'm paying. Otherwise I'd just do it myself.

A lot of guys here will say to go through the headaches of the 351 now or you'll regret it later and maybe that's true. For me I worry, deeply, about what too much power will do to the truck. You're opening a huge can of worms that won't stop until you've upgraded all your brake system, hydro, fuel system, differentials, splines/axles, carriers, hell even housings may stress from too much power. Nuts to that. The bronco is a lady-killer at any speed.

 

[vanolefan]

302 Crate Engine

Not trying to highjack this post, but I have a similar question about installing a 302 crate engine. I am looking to buy an engine from ATK and I know the flexplate and harmonic balancer will need to be swapped out and I will probably get it from ATK and have them install it. As for the oil pan, do you think they would have the oil pan I need for a bronco? Are there different ones for the Bronco? If so, which is best? If not, someone mentioned swapping their old one over. Do you think it is advisable to swap it over from my worn out engine?

 

[Skytrooper15]

Another option is to go with a short block which requires you to reuse your heads.But if it were me going with a short block I would still have the heads at least checked to make sure they are OK or need some work.You can probably get an estimate on the head work and if they and the short block are going to cost more than the crate engine I would go with the crate engine but it would be really nice to find someone with mechanical experience to help you.

 

[DirtDonk]

...I am looking to buy an engine from ATK and I know the flexplate and harmonic balancer will need to be swapped out and I will probably get it from ATK and have them install it.

Not sure why they need to be swapped? You want them to match the engine (not the vehicle) so if your new engine is a 28oz imbalance like the original, then that's what they're going to include in the build, or your old ones will fit.
If it's built on a 50oz imbalance platform, then that's what needs to come with the engine, or you will need to source the correct units.
The flywheel/flexplate is the only one you would need to fiddle with though, depending on whether you have a manual or automatic transmission.

Just ask them if they can provide a 164 tooth version with the engine.

As for the oil pan, do you think they would have the oil pan I need for a bronco?

Have to ask them. Some may offer the pan of your choice, and some may just supply whatever pan they supply and leave it up to the end-user to swap in the proper pan.
Never dealt with ATK (or Blueprint for another option) so don't know their procedures.

Are there different ones for the Bronco? If so, which is best?

I can't speak for brands, but yes there is a distinct pan for the Broncos and the late seventies 4wd truck engines. It's a six-quart, rear-sump pan with clearance for the front differential.
They're not easy to find, but the Fox Body Mustang "double-sump" pans fit reasonably well too.

If not, someone mentioned swapping their old one over. Do you think it is advisable to swap it over from my worn out engine?

Absolutely. The old pan is not damaged simply by debris collecting in it, or just being old. And it can easily be cleaned out if there is junk in it. Not a lot of baffling or ducting in stock pans, so not too many nooks and crannies that are hard to reach. Usually a quick wipe with some de-greaser and you have an essentially brand new pan on the inside.
Clean it up on the outside to your satisfaction and you're good to go.

There is one possible exception to this though. Your new engine's pan rail may have a dipstick hole right in the block. Those engine blocks may not be compatible with the old pan and might require a newer style (perhaps similar to the Fox Body version mentioned?) but not 100% sure about all the variations. I've only run into it once and don't really remember what we did as a solution.

A 6-quart pan is more desirable to my thinking, but if you're stuck with a 5-quart pan it's not the end of the world. Most vehicles have that size and work just fine.

Oh, and as always, the oil pump pickup tube must match the pan. So if you want to swap your old pan for the new one on the new engine, you will need to carry over the old pickup tube as well.

Paul

 

[bronco loco]

I went thru the same situation a few years ago. Was able to find a 98 explorer engine with 100k. Replaced my old with the 98 explorer, best thing I did. Eventually replaced the 4c for the 4r70w also from the explorer. By the way the motor is carbed.

 

[vanolefan]

Thanks

DirtDonk thanks for the info. Very helpful.