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New Bronco - Compression Test

Broncopower96

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
55
Loc.
Chantilly
Hey everyone, I just purchased a '77 bronco. ;D When I bought it, the driver's side valve cover was off, and the owner said the engine was making a "pecking" noise. When I got her home, I re-installed the valve cover with a new gasket, changed the oil and gas, and topped off the radiator. There didn't appear to be any metal in the oil, although there was a good amount of sludge. There also appeared to be a little antifreeze in the oil. It has a December 2014 inspection sticker, and the gas didn't seem to bad. Must not have been sitting too long.

She started right up, but there was a deep, slow tapping noise. My guess is a piston or rod. Anyways, I checked the compression today and got the following numbers:

#1 145
#2 130
#3 130
#4 110
#5 92 (after spraying oil, 110)
#6 120
#7 150
#8 145

There doesn't appear to be any pattern to the compression numbers. I figured the engine was shot, and this confirms it. Has anyone seen numbers like this? I plan on swapping in a 351 EFI and ZF 5 speed. But would be nice to be able to drive around in the meantime...
 

AxlesUp

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Messages
424
Loc.
Collierville TN
that's not the worst thing i have ever seen.

i use the 10% rule.. all cylinders should be within ~10% of each other and nothing should be in the double digits.

i say run it until you get the new engine... if it starts knocking bad then park it.
 
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Broncopower96

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
55
Loc.
Chantilly
Thanks for the advice. I've heard the 10% rule before, sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, I think the 92 cylinder and deep tapping/knocking is cause to keep it parked for now. I'll just work on the body for now while I save up for the engine.
 

patterdale

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
1,252
Drive it till the engine swap. If the knock speeds up with throttle it is a rod. If it remains the same it is a main. Engine is nowhere near leaving you stranded unless you plan on long tripping it. New bearings and a boring with oversize pistons and you've got a good engine. Heck I'll take it for the price of shipping and rework it for our latest project Bronco.
 

66horse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
3,394
Drive it till the engine swap. If the knock speeds up with throttle it is a rod. If it remains the same it is a main. Engine is nowhere near leaving you stranded unless you plan on long tripping it. New bearings and a boring with oversize pistons and you've got a good engine. Heck I'll take it for the price of shipping and rework it for our latest project Bronco.

I agree. All of my cylinders are at or below your lowest cylinder. Don't be scared to drive it.

Cheers,
Steve
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
51,622
And the more you drive it, the more likely the two low cylinders (at least the one that came back up some with oil) are to come back to life as the rings re-seat and sort of "loosen back up" so to speak.
Now, no guarantee that this will happen, but it does happen more often than you might think. These things like being used, rather than stuffed away in a corner.

What oil are you using, and what pressure is the gauge reading?
If you're not in one of the colder winter wonderlands of this beautiful continent, use 20w/50 to keep the pressure up, and add some additives that are designed to free sticky rings, quiet noisy lifters, and do whatever else they're supposed to do.
Normally this is where I say "it can't hurt" to use additives, but in your case you already know it's got (or had) some sludge buildup in the oil. This means that at some point in it's life, this truck was not well taken care of. An engine that has it's oil changed at regular intervals and is not run hot, and tune-ups are at least semi-regular (with new PCV valves especially) will not likely build up any sludge ever. The exceptions might be engines that only ever saw a couple of miles commute and never quite warmed up during it's life.

If you have not already, I would actually do that tune-up too. Put a new PCV valve in it and see what happens. Most of that new stuff will cross over to the new engine too possibly, so it's not like it's automatically wasted parts.

If the knocking continues even with the thicker oils and driving regularly, you might consider some of the thicker additives that are primarily "viscosity improvers" such as good old STP or Motor Honey.
They're not cure-alls either, but I've seen more than one knocking engine drive for thousands miles more with little to no noise after adding a can of STP.

I know we lovingly call them snake-oils, but a stereotype does not make it false. They've always worked for me.

Good luck. And have fun.
Oh, and once you get the new engine in (because no matter how good this one runs, I would still go for that new or rebuild engine later) you can REALLY have fun!

And welcome to classicbroncos with another '77 too. Glad to have you on board. Keep us updated and post some pics of your new rig too, if you get the chance.
In case you have not read the details yet, you will either need to upload images to an online hosting site and then link them here, or pay 13 bucks a year to be a contributor and then you can upload pics right to your posts directly.

Good luck with the whole new project.

Paul
 
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Broncopower96

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
55
Loc.
Chantilly
Thank you for the warm welcome guys, I really appreciate your help. I still need to reconnect the air cleaner and pcv hose. The previous owner installed a new carb, but didn't finish hooking it up. The original air cleaner housing is all there. My plan is to pick up a 1/4" stud and wing nut at the hardware store, and a new air cleaner and pcv valve at the auto parts store.

I put in 10W/30 synthetic blend (that's all they had at Napa). I'm located in northern Virginia, so it drops below freezing but not too bad. I will change the oil to a conventional 20w/50 with some additives next.

I only ran the engine enough to get the bronco into the garage, but I'll keep an eye on the oil pressure gauge next time I start her up.

I forgot to mention that the spark plug for the 92 cylinder had oil on it when I took it out for the compression test. I just replaced the spark plugs, so that must have happened during the 5 minutes or so it took to park the bronco in the garage. I think that indicates a worn cylinder/piston/ring. I believe the engine is original (valve covers are '77), and has 108,000 miles. The previous owner purchased from the original owner, and the previous title indicated 98,000 miles. The odometer is now rolled over to 8,000. Of course, the engine could have been rebuilt at some point.

I'll make sure to post an update later this weekend. Happy thanksgiving!
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
51,622
Sounds like you got a good all around winter oil in there. I ran 20w/50 all year round over hear, but my climate is mild to say the least. Up your way this time of year, that 10w/30 is sounding pretty good, if it wasn't for the fact that we're trying to eliminate (or at least reduce) a potential bearing knock.
Maybe leave it for awhile and just add some of the snake-oil to that synthetic you have in there now?
At the very least, that way you'll waste one less batch of oil, and at the best, you're running a good winter blend it sounds to me.

Wait for others to chime in, that might have more experience in the Eastern Winters than this left coast yankee. Lots of VA Bronco owners that can talk about oil weights and oil pressures and such in your region.

My own experience sounds similar to yours to an extent. When mine had only 60k miles on it, there were already clicking noises from the lifters, it smoked out the tail pipe and used a quart of oil every 500 miles or so. And it just didn't have a whole lot of giddy-up for a 302 either.
In fact, the day I picked it up we checked the dipstick while still in the PO's driveway, and found that it had only 1 quart of oil left in it!!!!
Funny thing about oil pressure in an engine like ours. Because it was only running at low rpm, that one quart was actually enough to keep from sucking air (barely) because there was probably some still up in the filter and galleries and such (so more like 1-2 quarts?) but it took over two quarts just to start registering on the dipstick!
Luckily he had a case of oil in the garage.

Sorry for the long story. But basically, after a few oil changes, a few cans of oil cleaning additives (as opposed to the thicker STP stuff I was suggesting for yours) and a month or two of daily driving duties, all the smoking went away, the ticking lifters went away, the miles-per-quart went up to near 5000(!) and all was well with the engine for another 110k miles or so that I put on it. Sold it with 175k on the clock, still running like a top for someone to use while they rebuilt their old engine.

So it can work...

One thing I started to say previously, but sidetracked my train of thought, was that due to your possible high sludge content, you really don't want to use any of the solvent-based additives, such as the ones I used on mine, that are just meant to clean things up. Without a good manual cleaning first, you could dislodge larger volumes of sludge from inside and gum up the works.
I would still use the STP or Motor Honey types. Just not the thin cleaners yet.

Actually, I personally would still use them to clean up an engine in my own vehicles, but from experience would hesitate to recommend it to others unless they're ready for the possible consequences. In those cases, I'd open up the other valve cover to see what condition the upper areas are in before solvents get added. If it's bad, better to manually clean some of the stuff out first.
If it's not too bad, then have at it.

If your initial inspection didn't really indicate a huge amount of sludge (you didn't say how much, just that it had some), then there should be no reason to worry. I just like to bring it up because of the possible results under varied conditions.

With your knock however, we're still talking about the thicker additives just to see if it helps pressure and quieting the knock.
Be interested to hear what your pressure gauge is reading at the moment.

Good luck. Enjoy the driving around getting used to your new/old ride.

Paul
 

BroncoKelley

Jr. Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
131
Loc.
Billings, Montana
I have used BG products at home and work for 20+ years and I believe it's the best stuff out there. They have a new additive/engine crankcase cleaner called EPR (Engine performance restorer) pn. 109 that works really well for freeing up loose rings and turning sludge back to liquid. Mine had similar compression readings and low in #5 just like yours. I poured that stuff in and let the engine run at idle for an hour. Changed the oil and filter and added BG MOA to the 15W-40 oil. It runs much better and smokes less, hopefully it will continue to get better and get me through the winter until I get my Explorer 5.0 together. I have taken numerous 100+ mile trips since moving out here to Montana and the ol' 302 keeps on running! Good luck and just drive it!
 

edmedlin

Full Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
260
Loc.
Republic Missouri
My old 302 is still the original bottom end as far as I know. Records of the registrations show original 35,000 and a tad miles. I ain't messin' with it. It runs and starts great and will cruise along at 65mph fine. Don't know about the top end. Looks like the heads might have been done at some time. No sludge or anything in there and look fairly new. If they were not done, it was very well taken care of. The 302s are pretty tough and even if a bit worn, will still keep on rockin around and if you want to driver it around locally, I don't see why not. If you get it quieted down a bit, just drive it. Your compression numbers are not all that out of whack to make me too scared. The bottom end will hold up or it won't....... It will start getting a lot worse and warn you first..
 
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Broncopower96

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
55
Loc.
Chantilly
Quick update- I started her up over the weekend, but the knocking did not sound good. It was a really loud metal on metal sound coming from the bottom end. I also degreased the front of the engine and troubleshooted a coolant leek coming up from the timing cover. I forgot to mention that when I drained the oil initially, a good amount of coolant came out along with the sludge. Not sure if the two are related, but doesn't look good. Even though I plan on swapping an engine, I still don't want to grenade the original. Maybe I'll rebuild it someday. So the new plan is to focus on the body work/rust first, while I save up for a 96 exploder swap. So many great write-ups in this site, should be relatively straight forward. So much to look forward too!
 
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Broncopower96

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
55
Loc.
Chantilly
Also, the oil pressure was reading 10 when I ran it this past weekend. I'm sure additives would help, but I'm cutting my losses due to the severe knocking and coolant in the oil. I'll post some pics of the body rust once I get the old vinyl floor mat up.
 

jamesf7278

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2011
Messages
387
Loc.
Salmon Arm B.C
. I forgot to mention that when I drained the oil initially, a good amount of coolant came out along with the sludge. Not sure if the two are related QUOTE]


Ummm ya that's not good.... if there is coolant in the oil your bearings will be toast quickly. you got a leak in there somewhere, head or intake.
 
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Broncopower96

Jr. Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
55
Loc.
Chantilly
Thanks for the input guys. Can't wait to swap the exploder 5.0. Planning is half the fun. Switching gears to rust repair. Just posted a new thread with pictures.
 
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