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New Fuel Tank Design

How important is capacity to you?

  • 17 gallons is good enough

    Votes: 19 10.0%
  • 18-20 gallons is better

    Votes: 102 53.7%
  • 23 gallons is preferred

    Votes: 49 25.8%
  • 23 gallons is not enough

    Votes: 20 10.5%

  • Total voters
    190

englewoodcowboy

Sponsor/Vendor
Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,197
Hey guys and gals, I am looking to make a new fuel tank for the EB to offer. As most of you know we (Lick Creek Restorations) have been working very closely with James Duff Inc. to bring some awesome new products to market. We are addressing items that we have found to be issues or lacking features etc. in the building side of things and Duff has been working with us to make them. One item we have coming up is the fuel tank and I need to get an accurate gauge of interest on the features. Some questions I have primarily run to fuel capacity and how important it is to you. For example we all know the stock tanks are lacking realistic capacity however with the 23 gallon tanks they hang down pretty low and with no or 1" body lift they can be intrusive for mild off roading not to mention a bit ugly like a baby diaper full of crap... Anyways here is the questions, please spend some time thinking about it and please feel free to comment. All of this info will help to better guide the design of this tank to try and check off as many boxes as possible that actually fill the needs of most.

Capacity while more is better it sometimes is not always necessary, thinking of trying to get it in the 18-20 gallon range is a thought. Coming form someone who has done a lot with their bronco, travel, off road etc. I honestly have never sat in the seat long enough to burn the entire capacity of the tank up in one go. The most I have used before my back and butt said they needed to stretch was 17 gallons and that was towing my pop up to Michigan 2 years ago. So I am trying to think on the level of practical compromise here by reducing the hang down some for off road use as well as aesthetics. Please let me know your thoughts on this.
 

stout22

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
2,532
Loc.
Athens, AL
I would prefer a tank that does not hang as low as the current 23 gallon design but with higher capacity than stock. 18 to 20 gallons would be good.
 

Apogee

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
5,894
I think anything in the 18-20 gallon range would be adequate for what I do, and extra ground clearance is always appreciated.
 

Rangerbj

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
246
Since I drive locally and don't burn much fuel. I prefer the smaller amount of fuel to keep fresh. Too large a tank can lead to old fuel for me. IMHO
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
4,397
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
18-20 gallons would be perfect. I might even be able to make it fit mine... hmmm.....

I've been needing to build a new tank and 20 gallons was my goal. but I'd be happy with 17 over the 12ish I currently have, although its not ever not been enough, except I'm looking at some longer multi night trail rides that will take 25ish gallons to complete.
 
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englewoodcowboy

englewoodcowboy

Sponsor/Vendor
Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,197
Great feedback so far guys. We are shooting for that 18-20 gallon mark, it all comes down to the final design. We are also trying to make the fuel senders a bit more accurate as well by changing up the design some, again being able to reduce some capacity will allow for a more cemetrical design in the tank which will work out well for fuel gauges. This is all thinking and gearing towards aftermarket gauges etc as well since they are wound to be cemetrical vs the factory which is wound to accommodate the OE tank design.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
4,397
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
The ability to use an off the shelf fuel pick up with an intank pump would be spectacular. I've been retro fitting other tanks to use 2000's GM pickup units. They are an easy design to install, the pick up is spring loaded for a lot of variance in tank depth, down to about 10" if I remember correctly. It would eliminate the need for custom parts, easier on you and the end user if replacement parts are needed down the line. Has to be something super common so its available in BFE if you need one.
 

ransil

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Messages
8,110
the top sender and fuel ports should be recessed so the tank can be mounted high as possible.
mounting with something other than the strap.
i used the 2 cross member holes in the front with some all thread and fram mounted in the back, think i welded brackets to the frame.
bead rolling the filler & vent tube would be nice
 

gnsteam

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
3,126
Loc.
Lincoln NE
I'm with you on the 18-20 gallon range. I lost my aux tank due to a leak and have been running with just the stock main. So a main tank with 18-20 capacity would be enough for me. And any additional ground clearance over the 23 gallon is a plus.

Is it ready yet?;D I'm going to need a new EFI tank very soon(6 months or less) for my Explorer 5.0 upgrade.
 

SP73

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
164
Firstly I’d like to thank you (and Duff’s) for spearheading this! My 23 gal efi tank hangs down too low, with a 2” BL. I’m firmly in the function over form camp, so I never considered the likeness to a full baby diaper ;D! I have a dual tank setup (aux is a simple transfer tank/pump) so 17 would be fine, but I think 18-20 would work better for the majority.
 

yakelys69

Sr. Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
704
I have the same setup and agree with SP73. When I built the skid plate I was considering chopping 2" off the tank, at the time I figured I could live with ~ 4.5 Gallons less.
 

spap

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
2,287
20 I think is ideal over even just and inch higher into the body from the 23 . 20 because most broncos get 10/12 mpg and less on the trail. And as yeller said a clean retrofit of an existing fuel injection fuel pump. Would be ideal. Easy to change the pump, and having the return line if needed flow back on top of the pump for cooling, I believe that’s how manufactures did it when they had return lines.

Haaa Sorry but you asked.
 

MarsChariot

Contributor
Planetary Offroader
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
2,300
Loc.
Albuquerque, New Mexico
I would start with the issues we have in the current aftermarket tanks. One is the height,as is noted, although I do not personally find that the tanks are too low for most trail driving.

But there are several others perhaps more useful for many of us:
1. Room for gas expansion. On hot days the current crop of 23 gallon tanks have no expansion space and fuel will back up into the evap system or even the filler neck. I would sacrifice the need for a higher tank if I could use some of that height to provide some expansion space.

2. No. 1 especially happens because the lower front edges of the box-shaped tanks are close to exhaust pipes further adding to the problem noted in No. 1. Maybe a tank that is shaped in something less boxy to give a bit more clearance from the exhaust.

3. A sender unit that is close to pre-calibrated and works. Nothing worse than fighting with gas gauge accuracy, especially after the messy, time-consuming, and frustrating labor of installing the tank
 

ZOSO

Full Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2003
Messages
345
I would be ok with 18-20. I only get 10mpg so still need some capacity. And make it have a sender that is accurate. The whole 1/2 is 3/4, 1/4 is half, 1/8 is 1/4 and e is 1/2 is crappy.

Also non strap mounting. My current tank(bc I believe) uses Unistrut welded to the tank and brackets bolted to the frame. It is awesome for adjustability.
 

omureebe

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
366
I don't put much mileage on mine and still would be interested in a larger tank. But the price on these tanks, my opinion, is way more than the value. There are stainless tanks for $1000, and a factory steel tank for $170. Can't figure out why stainless has become an option in the first place, but I think $1000 for a fuel tank is crazy.
 

syndicate1

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
421
What’s the maximum fuel capacity for a tank that does not hang below the frame with no lift?

+1 to include a valve for emptying the tank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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englewoodcowboy

englewoodcowboy

Sponsor/Vendor
Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,197
the top sender and fuel ports should be recessed so the tank can be mounted high as possible.
mounting with something other than the strap.
i used the 2 cross member holes in the front with some all thread and fram mounted in the back, think i welded brackets to the frame.
bead rolling the filler & vent tube would be nice

That is one of my primary goals for re-inventing this wheel. I have planned for recess fuel pick-up/return and vent connections. Also thinking about adding a drain plug possibly. As for sending unit it will be a float less design, Ive had to pull too many tanks to free a stuck float from a wire that got in the way etc.
 
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englewoodcowboy

englewoodcowboy

Sponsor/Vendor
Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,197
I don't put much mileage on mine and still would be interested in a larger tank. But the price on these tanks, my opinion, is way more than the value. There are stainless tanks for $1000, and a factory steel tank for $170. Can't figure out why stainless has become an option in the first place, but I think $1000 for a fuel tank is crazy.

Unfortunately the price is going to be up with the others. I wish we could reduce it but that would involve a major investment for dies and stamping with a long term return and we simply cannot make that feasible because even then it would still be significantly more than a factory type unit. The price of the others are up there because they are all hand made. This unit will be stainless as well and most likely TIG welded which takes time to do. It will feature premium components for reliability etc. so I would not expect at the end of the day this to be a cheap option.
 
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englewoodcowboy

englewoodcowboy

Sponsor/Vendor
Lick Creek Restorations
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
4,197
I would start with the issues we have in the current aftermarket tanks. One is the height,as is noted, although I do not personally find that the tanks are too low for most trail driving.

But there are several others perhaps more useful for many of us:
1. Room for gas expansion. On hot days the current crop of 23 gallon tanks have no expansion space and fuel will back up into the evap system or even the filler neck. I would sacrifice the need for a higher tank if I could use some of that height to provide some expansion space.

2. No. 1 especially happens because the lower front edges of the box-shaped tanks are close to exhaust pipes further adding to the problem noted in No. 1. Maybe a tank that is shaped in something less boxy to give a bit more clearance from the exhaust.

3. A sender unit that is close to pre-calibrated and works. Nothing worse than fighting with gas gauge accuracy, especially after the messy, time-consuming, and frustrating labor of installing the tank

I hear you. I learned this lesson the hard way 2 years ago at SC. Filled her up at 6am it was about 35° out and then went and sat in the show field. It warmed up into the low 80's that day and after about 6 hours I noticed something dripping off of it. The fuel had expanded and ran down my fender all day. Needless to say the paint couldn't handle that constant onslaught of gas and failed as well so I had to repaint that quarter. I am def trying to address that with the fill spout into the tank to force an air gap at the top for decent expansion. What I am working on will also prevent over filling so when the pump clicks off it will be full. Im certain just like factory tanks you could squeeze extra in past that but everyone would have to know that when it auto shuts off that you are full as intended design and that any more will fill the expansion cavity.
 

Madgyver

Contributor
Bronco Madman
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,193
20 gallon is enough. Squeeze it in-between the crossmember and rear bumper. Probably 12" depth.

What gauge sheet metal are you going to use?
 
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