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Painless Harness Instrument Cluster Issues

cldonley

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Finishing up my Painless install. Haven't started the rig yet, but everything seems to work except the cluster. No lights, no gauges, no turn indicator, no high beam indicator, nuthin, although I do get a faint glow from the bulb nearest the ammeter. Called tech support and they suggested a bad ground for the cluster, but if there is a bad ground, I don't know how to find it. The cluster is grounded through the wiring harness and everything else is working, horn, signals, flashers, headlights, starter. Haven't cranked it to check the charging system, and haven't checked wipers. I need a place to start troubleshooting this thing. I should add that I had Classy Chassis redo the cluster a few years back and it was all working before changing out the harness. Lil' help?
 

Oldtimer

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Stock cluster is grounded to dash by bolts and dash mounting surfaces.
Dash is grounded by bolts holding it to body.
Start edit/
Body is grounded by wire under mounting bolt for starter relay.
Wire is connected to engine by same bolt that connects battery ground cable.

End edit/
Body is grounded by a ground wire to battery(maybe).

Any of these surfaces have rust, paint, an or powder coat, cluster probably won't work.

Clean all mounting points till shiny and bright.
 
Last edited:

chuckji

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What Oldtimer said. And, if you don’t have ground cables bonding the frame, body and engine to the battery - terminal, add them.
 
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cldonley

cldonley

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What Oldtimer said. And, if you don’t have ground cables bonding the frame, body and engine to the battery - terminal, add them.
I have several ground straps between the frame, engine and body.
Stock cluster is grounded to dash by bolts and dash mounting surfaces.
Dash is grounded by bolts holding it to body.
I'll make sure the cluster is grounded and see if it helps. Hoping for an easy fix for once!

Thanks!
 

DirtDonk

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That’s a strange one.
I could see the gauges not working if the cluster is not grounded, but not the lights. Especially all of them!
Since most of them are on separate circuits.

Don’t neglect to check the fuses, because most of those things didn’t have a fuse from the factory. But they should all have fuses from Painless.

You’ll have to measure the voltage into the IVR, then out to the gauges.
What exactly are the gauges doing at the moment? And do you have them all connected to their opposite number sending units at the engine and fuel tanks?

Are you utilizing the ammeter with the charge wire going through the loop? Or did you replace it with a voltmeter?
 
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cldonley

cldonley

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That’s a strange one.
I could see the gauges not working if the cluster is not grounded, but not the lights. Especially all of them!
Since most of them are on separate circuits.

Don’t neglect to check the fuses, because most of those things didn’t have a fuse from the factory. But they should all have fuses from Painless.

You’ll have to measure the voltage into the IVR, then out to the gauges.
What exactly are the gauges doing at the moment? And do you have them all connected to their opposite number sending units at the engine and fuel tanks?

Are you utilizing the ammeter with the charge wire going through the loop? Or did you replace it with a voltmeter?
Sending units are connected. Using the WH M1A1 fuel sending unit for my home-built 25 gallon tank. Only the fuel gauge should be moving, but it is not (engine not running so no oil pressure or temp).

Not using the ammeter.

Speaking of weird, two of the three lights for the cluster are working. One seems to have a bad ground, it will give me voltage if I touch a ground other than the light bulb socket. Bulb checks good. The ground for the lights is supplied by the Painless wiring harness, so there is some issue there.

12 volts to the IVR.

No high beam indicator or turn signal indicators, but high beams and turn signals work fine.

My Painless isn't, at the moment.
 

DirtDonk

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Are the lights you’re using LED type, or regular?
 

EPB72

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Can you take a temporary gound jumper wire to the back of the cluster housing and see if you have functionality.......... does painless instructions explain ground for cluster and location to install ground points?,,, curious does the cluster use a common disconnect connector {AAW does} or is it wired like original .......I also didnt rely on cluster mounting as a ground my ground is on the pedal support bracket through weather pack connectors just two connectore for ease of cluster removal if necessary,,
 
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cldonley

cldonley

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1749564349387.png

Here is the ground diagram for the cluster. I'm going to trace the #969 wire and make sure I have a good ground.
Can you take a temporary gound jumper wire to the back of the cluster housing and see if you have functionality.......... does painless instructions explain ground for cluster and location to install ground points?,,, curious does the cluster use a common disconnect connector {AAW does} or is it wired like original .......I also didnt rely on cluster mounting as a ground my ground is on the pedal support bracket through weather pack connectors just two connectore for ease of cluster removal if necessary,,
Tried this. No change.
 

DirtDonk

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Strange. What is that Yellow wire from the turn signal switch doing on the ground circuit? Does the turn signal switch suddenly need a ground these days? And why would they use the Ford color for 12v positive!
Might be "one of those things" that I used to comment to them on when I would get the instructions early. I haven't seen the last two generations up close and personal yet, so have not commented on any confusions, consternations, or outright mistakes to correct.
Eric is here still, but I don't think he's still doing the same job as when he originally designed the harness and wrote the initial instructions.

So do you see that Yellow wire spliced into your Black ground wires somewhere?

Paul
 
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cldonley

cldonley

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Update: found that I didn't connect the ground in the diagram above. All the lights now work famously.
Strange. What is that Yellow wire from the turn signal switch doing on the ground circuit? Does the turn signal switch suddenly need a ground these days? And why would they use the Ford color for 12v positive!
I don't understand this either, but now all the lights are working so I'm not complaining!
The biggest problem was that I had been looking at it too long and couldn't really see it anymore. A good night's sleep and a friend coming over and pointing at stuff and asking questions helped a ton!
Fuel gauge still isn't indicating. I will chase the wiring on it and see what I can figure out.
The wipers aren't working. I don't remember testing the wiper motor before I pulled it out, and I am using an intermittent wiper switch from an 80-something pick up that may or may not work. More testing needed. Advice on a test for the motor and/or switch would be appreciated.
IVR has 12v coming in and 12v coming out, so there's an issue I reckon.
 

DirtDonk

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Glad you got it working!
For the windshield wiper motor, make sure that it is grounded solely solidly to the windshield frame, and that the frame is grounded solidly to the body. Might seem obvious, but it rarely is with Broncos!

For testing purposes run a temporary ground wire from one of the electric motor’s mounting bolts down to a known good body ground.

And speaking of Body Grounds… Did you retain, or add a main body ground from the battery to the fender? And then another one from the engine to the firewall?
 

Oldtimer

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Check ground path for fuel tank sender. Factory fuel tank had a ground wire that went to frame, and NO ground wire between battery and frame. You added ground strap between fame & body.
 
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cldonley

cldonley

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Glad you got it working!
For the windshield wiper motor, make sure that it is grounded solely solidly to the windshield frame, and that the frame is grounded solidly to the body. Might seem obvious, but it rarely is with Broncos!

For testing purposes run a temporary ground wire from one of the electric motor’s mounting bolts down to a known good body ground.

And speaking of Body Grounds… Did you retain, or add a main body ground from the battery to the fender? And then another one from the engine to the firewall?
I added two braided ground straps between frame body, one in front and one in the back. I also added a ground from battery to body. The body seems to be grounded pretty well throughout.

Thanks for the help!
 

Hopstr

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I added two braided ground straps between frame body, one in front and one in the back. I also added a ground from battery to body. The body seems to be grounded pretty well throughout.

Thanks for the help!
I'm in the process of my Painless rewire now also. Where did you connect the braided straps to the body?
 

DirtDonk

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Can't answer for them directly, but indirectly I can say do it wherever it's convenient.
It won't really matter in many cases, although putting them near where most of the electrical connections are might not be a bad thing. Or just anywhere, to also help reduce radio noise interference overall.
So just a convenient spot in the rear, for the tail lights, side markers and such. The frame is the ground for the rear tank sending unit, so that could be an area around the rear wheel well and frame member.
In the front, I've done it between motor mount bolts on the engine side, to the frame near the engine mounting tower. On the full-size trucks, there are a couple of very convenient bolts already there.
And while you're at it, add a braided strap between the back of the engine and the firewall. Here again, convenient existing bolts are perfectly fine. If you want it more out of the way, you can make your own bolt location. And even perhaps pass it through so that items under the dash can be grounded there as well.

In lieu of braided straps (which are easy to find at the store, or even make out of a roll of braided strapping) you can also use some Black wire. I always use 10ga for this, but you can use 12ga if that's what you've got handy and want to get rid of.
The smaller the wire gauge, the more grounds you might want to add. But unless you're running an electronically heavy Bronco, a few well placed 10ga wires will do the trick.
I forget the rating, but a typical braided strap is usually a much higher "wire gauge" size than you might think.

Paul
 
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