Paint - Single Stage vs Two Stage

[Broncmeister]

The mill thickness of base coat is extremely thin almost nil. Clear is about 2.5 mills thick for 2 coats. If you plan on wet sanding and buffing you need about 2.5-3 coats. Single stage is the same about 2.5 mills thick and same number of coats if you plan on wetsand and buffing. Those that apply upwards of 5 coats is asking for the paint whether it's single stage or base/clear to fail. It will chip very easy and in time will check up or crows feet. Too many paint jobs will do the same thing.
If the scratch goes thru to the base coat then yes you need to repaint. If the scratch goes just as deep to lets say the first coat of single stage. Yes you can buff it out but then the paint is VERY thin and will fail in a very short time. You still would need to repaint it.

This really depends on the paint. To claim a certain thickness for all paints can lead to serious mistakes. You need far more than 3 coats of clear for a candy job for instance. The paint I used recommended minimum of 5 coats of paint to get adequate coverage because it is so much thinner than many other automotive paints.

To repair it with single stage you sand the entire panel 400-600 but you have to cover the entire panel with color. For a base coat repair you also sand the entire panel in 800 and the repair 400-600 but you only apply color to the repair. You then clear the entire panel. You then have a better color match and a thus a better repair. Single stage repair is easier, cheaper, and requires less skill. As long as the vehicle is not faded and the formula is mixed 100% accurate then color match will be fine. My opinion though is a base/clear is a better repair.

again, not necessarily. In a single stage If the paint job is fairly new, doing the entire panel is not necessary for the repair. However, if it is a much older paint job doing the entire panel may be necessary for a better overall appearance due to the age of original paint resulting in color or hue change, sun fading, etc.

I would advise to the OP to decide on what his desired look is first. If he just wants a basic blue, yellow, red type color with nothing added to change the finish like metal flake, etc. then I would say go with a single stage. If he wants a metallic paint job or similar then go with a two stage. If he plans on some mild off-roading with the chance of getting light scratches from foliage but mostly street driving then go with a two stage, but if he plans on serious body mangling offroad dominance, single stage is the answer.

 

[allenfahey]

This really depends on the paint. To claim a certain thickness for all paints can lead to serious mistakes. You need far more than 3 coats of clear for a candy job for instance. The paint I used recommended minimum of 5 coats of paint to get adequate coverage because it is so much thinner than many other automotive paints.

again, not necessarily. In a single stage If the paint job is fairly new, doing the entire panel is not necessary for the repair. However, if it is a much older paint job doing the entire panel may be necessary for a better overall appearance due to the age of original paint resulting in color or hue change, sun fading, etc.

I would advise to the OP to decide on what his desired look is first. If he just wants a basic blue, yellow, red type color with nothing added to change the finish like metal flake, etc. then I would say go with a single stage. If he wants a metallic paint job or similar then go with a two stage. If he plans on some mild off-roading with the chance of getting light scratches from foliage but mostly street driving then go with a two stage, but if he plans on serious body mangling offroad dominance, single stage is the answer.

Candy paint jobs will do exactly like I stated... chip easily because of the mil thickness is huge. House of Kolor is the candy paint I'm talking about. You would have probably upwards of 7 mils at least when dry. That is why candy paint jobs are usually show cars.

What brand of paint did you use? The paint you applied 5 coats for coverage is thin when applied. Dupont and PPG are two examples of thin base coats and single stages. The DRY film thickness is still 2.5 mills or so. Some colors do require more paint like yellow but you first seal it in white and it will cover better. I've been to too many paint certification classes and all of them will tell us no more than 3-4 mils of paint (not including primer and selaler) if you want the paint companies to warranty their products.

 

[Numberfool]

I really appreciate all the feedback. Things are about as clear as mud now

Did a bunch of research on this as well on the interweb, all advice points the same way... Split. I have many telling me two stage for UV durability. Others telling me single stage to be period correct.

Resto/mod. Nothing crazy, 2.5 inch lift, she is cut. I'll go hunting with this, but nothing ever extreme. Drive it to work twice per week at most and the rest of the time in the garage. Trying to keep some things original, seats, trim, etc. but, again, cut, lifted, wheels. The rest will be kept pretty true.

Here are my two colors I am down to.


Limestone Green Poly


Boxwood Green

I'll keep churning on the decision. My painter will do either , thinks older cars should be single stage. Had I never posed the question, I just had assumed two stage was the way to go... That it was "better" cause it cost more. Either way, my price is locked as I did a big fat package deal on taking body off, rust repair, blocking and paint. Just have call it by next week.

Again, I really appreciate the responses.

 

[Broncmeister]

Candy paint jobs will do exactly like I stated... chip easily because of the mil thickness is huge. House of Kolor is the candy paint I'm talking about. You would have probably upwards of 7 mils at least when dry. That is why candy paint jobs are usually show cars.

What brand of paint did you use? The paint you applied 5 coats for coverage is thin when applied. Dupont and PPG are two examples of thin base coats and single stages. The DRY film thickness is still 2.5 mills or so. Some colors do require more paint like yellow but you first seal it in white and it will cover better. I've been to too many paint certification classes and all of them will tell us no more than 3-4 mils of paint (not including primer and selaler) if you want the paint companies to warranty their products.

Correct. I must apologize, I had not intended this to become an argument as to who is right or a more experienced painter. I am just an amateur and have no professional experience, just painting my own projects and some for friends, just wanted to get my opinion out. I used white sealer, and planet colors barret jackson collector car series for the color. If I recall it was the person at the paint counter who recommended at least 5 coats to get adequate coverage, and while painting the vehicle to me it was quite obvious that he was correct. And yes it was very thin paint, sprayed a lot like clear in fact.

 

[craigaria]

Boxwood green;D

 

[Fireball05]

Boxwood Green in single stage. I have absolutely zero paint experience, at least not any that didn't come out of a rattle can or a Valspar 1 gallon bucket, but I think that it's a beautiful color, and the single stage period correct look will be awesome.

 

[bknbronco]

Two stage is better. Not because its more expensive but because repairs down the road will be easyer and cheeper. And two stage (base-clear) is gona be way more durable and last much longer.

Your paint shop suggested single stage? I didnt think a real body shop would paint anything but two stage unless you requested it.

I used PPG single stage (and no not the shitty omni). It was over $150 a quart. turned out nice but when i repaint the entire truck down the line i will shoot base clear.

While my single stage did turn out almost perfect i did notice that you see every tiny scratch. With the clear you wont see the same scratches because its in the clear.

I would never pay any body shop to shoot single stage! They should be able to shoot base-clear and they should be shooting it every day on every truck. If you want period correct then you would want aecrylic enamal or whatever they shot in the 60's or 70's. Single stage urethane like i used is not period correct, but neither is my truck! And why would you want it period correct?? Wouldnt you want something better that you can keep looking nice?

My vote is for base-clear. And only the expensive stuff! If they use cheep clear youll be sorry! Single stage is ausome for under the hood, frames, axles, etc. Base clear for body panels.

You wont be unhappy with two stage. With SS you might be mad after a trip through the weeds!

 

[werock71]

if it will ever see the boonies and get scratched by bushes, go easiest way to repair, so thats two stage?

Yes. If durability and repair ability are of concern, go bc/cc. Single stage has its place as already mentioned previously. Although, if I didn't want the full gloss on the interior, I'd just add some gloss modifier and bring the gloss down a bit. But I'd still have the durability of the clearcoat. It's for Active use.

 

[CraigS]

The only thing I haven't seen said is that for persons without a lot of experience spraying, metallic colors are easier in bc/cc because you're only trying to get the metallic even with the base, then applying the gloss. Applying the metallic and gloss as one coat (SS) can be problematic.

 

[AFM racer]

allenfahey puts it best.
Ive been a painter for 15 years. It really depends on your budget. Base and clear is great for many reasons but the cost is higher. I'm going single stage on my Bronco as the cost is less. What ever you decide on, go with quality paints. If money is an issue, you would be better off saving a few dollars using a quality single stage over a cheap base/clear. Stick with Dupont, PPG, Sikkens, Glasurit, House of Color and the like.
Let me know if you have any questions,
Mike

 

[KyleQ]

I want to go to single stage - love that look and I want to go with a dark green to hide the inperfections and a whimpleton white half cab, aluminum wheels - a little tint.

 

[allenfahey]

As a fellow painter welcome to the forum Mike!

Don,
Any name brand urethane clear is going to be fine to use. Make sure if you use XYZ basecoat to use XYZ's clear. From all the paint manufacturer classes I've attended the base coat and the clear are designed to chemically bond to each other. Any name brand paint system that has a lifetime warranty for an automotive body shop will be durable enough. Name brands in no particular order are PPG, Dupont, Spies, Standox, ICI, Glasurit, Sikkens, Diamont, and Sherwin Williams. They are all major suppliers to body shops.
Which paint line is the best is like asking what car is best. Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.. Ford is BTW I have used Standonx, Spies, PPG, Dupont, ICI, and Sherwin Williams. I've demo'd them all though. I personally use and like Spies. One hardener for primer, sealer, and clear which is less to buy. It also covers well so you use less base coat.

 

[allenfahey]

Just because it rolls across the auction line at Barret Jackson doesn't mean they used quality products. I know a guy that got a fresh restoration done for BJ and he used a shop that used cheap materials. He was the vice president of the dealership I worked at. He asked us to paint it but didn't want to pay the $ for us to do it right. 13 years ago I painted a Stroppe for bajabronc here on CB. I used Standox which is basically the same thing as Spies. I guarantee it hasn't hazed out even in the California sun where he now lives.
I use MS (medium solids) clear at work for the production cars. I also have HS (high solids) for higher end cars. There is a big difference in the appearance between the two but the HS clear 8035 is quite expensive. I know when I used Standox they had a scratch resistant clear for I think was Toyota at the time. That stuff was impossible to buff and was more prone to chipping since it was so hard. If you want a good paint line to use I recommend Spies. Since you have access to a booth I guarantee you won't be disappointed if you use the 8035 clear with a slow hardener like 3320. It takes a while to dry but is an outstanding clear.

Get in touch with bajabronc and ask him how his Stroppe looks 13 years later.

 

[asinor]

Just because it rolls across the auction line at Barret Jackson doesn't mean they used quality products. I know a guy that got a fresh restoration done for BJ and he used a shop that used cheap materials. He was the vice president of the dealership I worked at. He asked us to paint it but didn't want to pay the $ for us to do it right.

This. + you have to see the lighting setup they have @ BJ. A turd will shine under this light.

There are also people that rush to get things done and/or skimp on things to make a profit. There is a lot of good stuff there, there is also some junk.