Pertronix no spark

[Muddy1966Bronco]

I have a new Blueprint 302 with Centech harness and upgraded to Pertronix and the flamethrower coil. I am not getting any spark. The distributor plate has proper grounding. The coil is supplied with 12v (no ballast resistor or resistor wire used). It is gapped to .030. There's really nothing else I can figure out that could be wrong in this system except the igniter or the coil.

They were just installed. The key has not been left on so I know I didn't burn them up. The igniter pickup on the rotor is installed.

Any ideas or further tests I can do?

TIA

 

[DirtDonk]

You can test the coil itself for spark-a-bility, but I'm not sure there are any tests that can be performed on the Ignitor itself.
Are you using the same 12v source for both? Connected the Red distributor wire to the ignition coil positive side, along with the power wire?
Did you re-install the factory radio noise suppressor thingy on the same 12v line? Or is that gone completely?
The distributor body itself is clean where it enters the engine? This is the completion of the ground circuit, and is fairly sensitive to burned on oil and even rust that builds up in that bore over time.

To see if the coil will spark independent of the Ignitor, disconnect the Black wire from the distributor to the negative side of the coil and leave empty.
With the key on, use a separate bit of wire and alternately ground and un-ground the negative terminal.
With the coil's high-tension lead (from coil to distributor) removed you should see a nice healthy spark jump out of the tower and to one of the coil terminals.
Better yet, disconnect the HT lead from the distributor end and lay it near some metal on the engine.

A warning when doing this. It might not hurt the Ignitor, but I try to keep any of these test sparks away from the distributor itself. If your coil is near the distributor and the HT lead is short, temporarily substitute one of the longer spark plug wires to the coil and run it over to a bit of metal farther away from the distributor.

I may be over cautious, but I don't like getting errant loose sparks too close to the electronics. Yes, I know that there are sparks jumping the gap right there under the cap, but with a spark just looking for somewhere to jump, I tend to err to the side of caution.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[Huckit36]

Possibly control module? I had trouble with mine when I first got it running. Fortunately, I was at WH when the module went out. Replaced it the parking lot,bought a spare for my tool bag and it's run strong for the 4 years since.
Here's a link to the module I'm talking about. Though my packaging is different.
https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Pertronix_Ignitor_II/Bronco_Performance_Ignition#pdf
Hope this helps.

 

[DirtDonk]

I think I remember that!
Were you up for the Roundup, or October swap meet? Or just visiting in general when that happened?
Glad you got it back on the road without too much drama.

Muddy's is new, but that does not guarantee anything. It's not common, but I think I remember one Ignitor that did not work right out of the gate a few years ago.
I thought checking the other stuff first, to rule out a bad module would be a good thing. But if that does not pan out I would call Pertronix and tell them what's up.
Even if you bought it awhile back, but are just now installing it, maybe they will still do something nice about it.

Paul

 

[Huckit36]

I think it was for the swap meet. Mine was basically new when that happened. Didn't even have the windshield in it yet, and it rained on the way home. Anyways, 40 mile drive out there was the first time getting it on the road besides a couple drives around the block.
Just thought it might be worth mentioning. Definitely a good idea to check through all the rest.

 

[Muddy1966Bronco]

I thought checking the other stuff first, to rule out a bad module would be a good thing. But if that does not pan out I would call Pertronix and tell them what's up.
l

Though I've been to the roundup, that wasn't me having problems with Pertronix before. This is the first I've run the system. But this quote makes me question...my Bronco is a '71 and had the points. No ignition module. I thought that was for the Duraspark ignition only. Now I'm gonna feel like a real a$$ of an idiot if I needed to add an ignition module to the system. I don't see why because the coil just needs that keyed hot with this set up.

Also, I did see late last night that the igniter and pickup need to be level to each other. Mine aren't. I'll fix that and give it a try today.

The wire to the coil is a clear switched 12v hot. I confirmed voltage with both the key forward and churning. There's no factory radio suppressor unless Centech had it completely hidden and wrapped in the loom somewhere.

Thanks for the coil test. I can do that if leveling doesn't work. I did start a ticket with Pertronix too.

 

[DirtDonk]

Though I've been to the roundup, that wasn't me having problems with Pertronix before.

No, no. Was Huckit that had the problem right in our parking lot. We just got sidetracked on that with the conversation for a moment.

This is the first I've run the system.

Yep, that's why I thought that even if you've had it for a long time waiting to be installed, if you just installed it the folks at Pertronix might still be willing to service it under Warranty.

But this quote makes me question...my Bronco is a '71 and had the points. No ignition module. I thought that was for the Duraspark ignition only.

Nope, by "module" I think we were just talking about the actual magnetic pickup doohicky inside the distributor.
Many different electronic ignitions use what would be called a "module" or "modulator" (in Ford-speak) including Dura Spark modules on the fender, GM's HEI module under the cap, Chrysler's module on the firewall or fender, etc. The module is just the brains of the system and the most common failure point.

Now I'm gonna feel like a real a$$ of an idiot if I needed to add an ignition module to the system. I don't see why because the coil just needs that keyed hot with this set up.

You're correct. Everything needed comes with the Ignitor kit. You don't need a separate module because yours is that bit inside the distributor.

Also, I did see late last night that the igniter and pickup need to be level to each other. Mine aren't. I'll fix that and give it a try today.

Hmm, never thought about that. What about them is not level? Got a pic?

The wire to the coil is a clear switched 12v hot. I confirmed voltage with both the key forward and churning. There's no factory radio suppressor unless Centech had it completely hidden and wrapped in the loom somewhere.

Nope. You'd see it right there mounted to the coil bracket if it was still there. Many get removed over time. Looks just like a points distributor's condenser (because it is) and just acts as a capacitor (because it is) to reduce voltage spikes to keep the static out of the radio.
If it's not visible, it's not there.

I did start a ticket with Pertronix too.

Good! Let us know how that works out.

Paul

 

[Muddy1966Bronco]

Dirk Donk, you are very thorough and helpful, thank you.

Pertronix did send me several checks to go through. The module seems fine according to the tests. The coil is the only thing that tested out of spec. It was supposed to read 1.5-3.5 ohms across the terminals and it only reads 1.1 ohms. Which the directions say I can add a ballast resistor to the system to increase that, but that defeats the whole purpose that I paid extra money for the flamethrower coil! I wanted as clean of an engine bay as possible and I didn't want to mount that big ugly thing on the firewall.

So we will see what Pertronix says to that.

 

[Muddy1966Bronco]

Hmm, never thought about that. What about them is not level? Got a pic?

I can get a pic if needed, its simply the top of the magnetic pickup should match the top of the module. Mine didn't so I pulled up the magnetic about 1/4". Though that wasn't the problem. Would have been a nice easy fix!

 

[chuckyb]

Dirk Donk, you are very thorough and helpful, thank you.

Pertronix did send me several checks to go through. The module seems fine according to the tests. The coil is the only thing that tested out of spec. It was supposed to read 1.5-3.5 ohms across the terminals and it only reads 1.1 ohms. Which the directions say I can add a ballast resistor to the system to increase that, but that defeats the whole purpose that I paid extra money for the flamethrower coil! I wanted as clean of an engine bay as possible and I didn't want to mount that big ugly thing on the firewall.

So we will see what Pertronix says to that.

The pertronix instructions say not to use a ballast resistor when you are using the flamethrower coil.

 

[Muddy1966Bronco]

The pertronix instructions say not to use a ballast resistor when you are using the flamethrower coil.

Exactly. But this new set of troubleshooting directions ends with "If total resistance is incorrect, then either the coil will need to be changed or a ballast resistor added." No specification on what type of coil. I do expect the coil to be replaced. I'm going to be miffed if they simply tell me to add a resistor to coverup a defective part.

 

[Muddy1966Bronco]

Well. Ahem. I'm embarrassed to say that I had the choke on the wrong side of the coil. Either that or fully disassembling this unit and then reassembling fixed the problem. I tested the coil on my husband's Mustang and that fired right over, so I reinstalled it on the Bronco and left the electric choke wire off. The Bronco came right to life.

Thanks for the help. On the bright side, I now have a set of directions for diagnosing Pertronix systems, haha.

 

[DirtDonk]

Well then share those puppies for posterity!
I'd like to see what they suggest for testing if you don't mind.

Thanks

And what choke? You mean power for the carburetor choke? Or something else?

Paul

 

[Muddy1966Bronco]

Well then share those puppies for posterity!
I'd like to see what they suggest for testing if you don't mind.

Thanks

And what choke? You mean power for the carburetor choke? Or something else?

Paul

Yes, it was supposed to be a power feed. I saw a black wire and just assumed to put it on the negative side of the coil. I should know by now, never assume, haha.

I uploaded the document to my Google drive. Let me know if this doesn't work:

Pertronix Ignitor No Start or Poor Run

 

[DirtDonk]

Worked great! Thanks.

Reason I asked about the choke is that in general I just don't like connecting unrelated accessories to the ignition to get power. If something happens to the choke to cause a short or higher load or whatever, it could stop the ignition from working. Or even worse, damage components.
I don't know this to be a fact though, which is why I just err to the side of caution and look for other power sources for stuff.

Is this a Ford choke, or an aftermarket choke? Since this is on a '66 I presume you swapped it in at a later date, so could be either. If a Ford choke though, they were powered up from the stator (STA) terminal on the back of the alternator.
If an aftermarket, they can be done the same way but don't work properly 100% of the time, unfortunately.

Anyway, if you ever experience ignition issues, be sure to disconnect the choke to eliminate that from the list of suspects right up front.

Paul

 

[Muddy1966Bronco]

Is this a Ford choke, or an aftermarket choke? Since this is on a '66 I presume you swapped it in at a later date, so could be either. If a Ford choke though, they were powered up from the stator (STA) terminal on the back of the alternator.
If an aftermarket, they can be done the same way but don't work properly 100% of the time, unfortunately.

Anyway, if you ever experience ignition issues, be sure to disconnect the choke to eliminate that from the list of suspects right up front.

Paul

I don't know why I forgot about the choke. It just didn't click until putting the coil back in. And it is an aftermarket Edelbrock choke. Contrary to the name, I don't own a '66 anymore. This is the '71, but it has been upgraded in a bunch of areas.

I hope this troubleshooting helps others out. Maybe I need to emblazon the top with DISCONNECT ELECTRIC CHOKE, haha.