pros and cons of running a 4BT???

[johnnybgood74]

i am really considering on stuffing a 4BT into my 69. i would like to know the ups and downs of running one. also, what tranny do you run behind it? does advanced adapters sell an adapter for a 4Bt to a NP435? is there alot of prep work to getting it to fit? i talked to my local diesel performance shop and they really want to help me get rolling with swap. after talking to them, i am all jacked about doing the swap! all opinions wanted on this subject! especially you PAPPIT!! lol;D

Thanks

John

 

[66fora69er]

Papitt...paging Papitt. I believe user Papitt is running this setup

 

[shamu]

shoot me your email. my friend has Cody has one in his CJ8. It is a great power plant and he loves it. he wheels with us at all of the Texas and Arkansas events.

 

[broncnaz]

If you get a cummins to ford transmission plate a NP435 will bolt right up. I believe the t18/T-19 tranny was commonly used in some of the ford applications you can find them around. Ebay, your desiel shop should be able to locate the correct plate as well. There a few companies that make new ones as well but I dont believe AA deals in the 4BT stuff.
I would ask whats your intended useage? trail only? street/trail/hiway? If anyhiway driving is planned then I would go with a OD tranny desiels do not like RPM's they are low RPM torque monsters so you need to keep the RPM's down. If its trail only then the NP435 would be fine.

I cant really speak for fitment but I have seem some that had the frame modifed slightly for the pass side engine mount. otherwise they seem to fit pretty well I was suprised at how they filled the engine bay of a bronco a little tighter than I thought it would.

As for pros well its a desiel should get mid 20's in gas mileage. and its different.

Cons its a desiel swap cost can be high I figure a easy $5K for engine alone unless you find a good low mileage engine to start with.. Its a heavy little engine I believe its around 800 lbs almost double of what a 302 weighs.

 

[00gyrhed]

Cons
1 you will eventually have to replace your entire driveline.
2 your vehicle will smell like diesel
3 your front end will be a little on the heavy side
4 it will cost you a LOT of money
5 it will REALLY drive like a bread truck

pros
1 cool factor
2 fuel efficiency

 

[thegreatjustino]

pros
1 cool factor
2 fuel efficiency

3. tons of torque

 

[johnnybgood74]

all great points! well, i do intend to drive it on the highways to get to my hunting spots. i really like the idea of excellent gas milage. as for the cost side of it, i think i can keep it rather low with a couple people that i know. also seen them from 1200 to 3000. doesnt seem to far off from the price of a 302.

 

[broncnaz]

Just keep in mind that a $1200 engine is probably due a rebuild so add in another $3000+ thats why I say that its going to be about $5K just for the basic engine.

To get that excellant gas mileage you'll need the OD tranny. So you can add in another $1-2K there easy.

While it all sounds like it can be done for close to what building a 302 or 351 its all the little stuff that adds up especailly if your paying someone else for the install. All said and done I think most 4BT swaps have closer to 10K into them easily.

 

[bigcountry]

Someone had a 4bt for sale in the bronco parts section a few weeks back. Tranny and all i think.

 

[00gyrhed]

3. tons of torque

thats #1 on the cons list.

 

[Pa PITT]

OK I just got inside from my shop .. I'm working on ramps for our new Toy Hauler ..
..I like my 4BT swap ... Would I recommend it everyone ..NO.. Most people just don't understand diesels. But I've grown up on a farm and then I worked at the Dodge dealership in town and we where the no.1 diesel truck dealer in Texas.. So I saw a lot of diesel trucks .. I wish I'd started gathering spare parts a few years before I became in the 4BT swap .. Lot of parts can be robbed of the older 6BT 12 valve trucks.
...I use mine rather soft compared to a lot of you guys .. So you motor will need to stick out of the hood area or you need a lot of lift..
...I got lucky my hood does shut on my motor and Under the truck I have 1&1/2 inch body lift and 3'' of chassis lift. I built some bump stops very close 2+ inches from my axle. My front coils are very stiff so they keep the motor oil pan from hitting the front punkin. My coils are not as stiff to the ride touch as I expected due to the extra 400 lbs. of motor ..My Bronco doesn't seem to front heavy Like the Dodge 4x4 trucks. While at the stealership we had lots of complaints about the front end to heavy and the truck would get stuck in mud to easy.. I have not had that issue ..''One of my concerns''

 

[Pa PITT]

More 4bt Stuff.
.... My swap cost me about $4000.00 as I remember. I started with a Running driving Bronco ..302.. NP435 a;ready installed and working correctly ..3:55P/trac rear end.. Aluminum rad.
....I bought a 4BT for $2200.00 which the price has came down some lately maybe $1500.00 .. If you buy one for a Ford set up you'll be ahead.. Mine was a chevy So I also had to buy a Ford set up ..I gave $500.00 for the ford set up I got cummins to ford adapter plate.and starter... flywheel . Clutch & pressure plate . throw out bearing & Hyd clutch setup & slave cyl. ..T18 Trans ..Bell housing for the HYd clutch..
....I sold my chevy items for 400.00 and still have the chevy adapter plate.
....

 

[Pa PITT]

Install section... I'll say go to web sight.... 4btswaps.com.....& search ..
... The adapter you can only get used or from cummins .. I used the adapter from Bt to Ford.. Then you can use a stock ford bell housing. I used the one from the Box van because I wanted to go to the hyd clutch . Maybe I could have used my Bronco V8 housing but I didn't want to find out later that something I didn't see would keep it from working. You have to use the flywheel from the Box van BT to Ford. Then I reused my NP435 because it was already installed. So I made my BT fit in the motor compartment and left the trans and T/C case in their original locations. I did knoch the frame by the starter for room.. My front cross member was cut out by a helper and a new one welded in an inch or so forward.. I hated this but after about a month of night work I welded the org. member back to his addition and also bolted it in .. It has worked and the Bronco drives like it should. We added 3 inch front stiff coils from Killdawg here.. I thought they were going to be to stiff but not I think their fine. I now think the progressives would be to soft. My $102.00 aluminum rad works great. But I had to mfg a lower rad. hose housing to point the correct direction .. milled it out of aluminum on a CNC. of Running Buddies.. About $200.00 then I found I could buy one from cummins. For about 50. I used the Big chevy 1 wire alt. that came with my motor and it works great ..Much better than the 10 SI 1wire I had on the 302. I did have to add a plate under the master cyl. and the slave cyl. because my firewall was soft . So a piece of flat plate 14 ga and drilled lots of holes . About here is where I became jobless from the stealership.. So money became tight.. Skitter Joe talked me into doing a new wiring harness .. We used the T3 by Northwest wiring off the Ebay about $208.00 as I recall.. I became scared to death here because I had to have Skitter's help on this. But since nothing was going to fit the T3 was a great choice .
My Steering column is from a 1979 tr. and we had wiring column issues.
I took the air turbo pipe from over the motor and pipe it around the front of the motor for about 4 inches of hood clearance. Worked great...
.Exhaust worked out great also I used the box van drop down exhaust pipe and the muffler guy welded onto it .. Muffler system which just drops in front of the rear axle cost about $200.00 3.5inch or 4 don't remember.
... You have to drop the oil pan and notch it so it won't hit the front punkin..$60.00. Scary But Mine has not made contact .. I can out about 3 fingers between both.
...I used a free dealer pull off. 24 valve lift pump that stock dodge bolted to the side of the block but I bolted it under the frame. Works great.
..Rear drive shaft fit just like it had before even after adding 2'' lift blocks to the rear axle. I used a set of 2008 or so one ton shocks from a dodge 4wheel drive that we replaced. Some short recall .. Guess what they fit like a glove with my lift. My front drive shaft was short but I pulled a yoke off an extra rear I had that added about an inch or so .. Worked prefect.
....Cranked it up ..It runs great ...A lot of credit goes to Running Buddy and Skitter Joe...... Skitter is a 21 year old tech from old work But the old man and Kid are buddies.....

 

[Pa PITT]

What else can you use...
..If it's going to be on the road and you have the money.. Then I'd use the 4BT and use a cummins to dodge 6bt adapter. a dodge 6bt bellhousing and dodge flywheel and clutch set up .. Now you can use the NV4500 5 speed trans and you'll need . I think it the NV231 transfer case and maybe a couple of others. But the dana 20 would be a little weak for this set up.
...I have all this stuff set aside for when the money comes back by..
....I gathered it up over about 2 years .. All that stuff is worth about $2000.00
So it good stuff to have in the bank.
.....If you have any questions fell free to ask or call...
...I wrote those answers in section so I could add to them in parts if I remember something that needs help.
...And I was trying to keep them shorter than I did.

 

[00gyrhed]

I think you just do not notice the heavy fromt in mud because of the short wheelbase. That is a pretty steep weight imbalance especially if you plan to run a heavy front bumper and winch.

 

[00gyrhed]

diesels are a funny thing. Some of us were once fans and then got to know more about them and over time decide they aint all that. Others the more they learn the more they like. Some have to actually go buy one to decide what a mistake they made. Others stumble into a deisel and just absolutely love it.

They are different to drive different to run different to maintain and no matter what there will always be a diesel fan base that thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread.

Papit got his done pretty cheap and as long as he putts arround muddy pasture and streets his driveline will hold up. But if you just read the posts on this board it won't take you long to realize that the 4BT over torques every single piece of teh Broncos driveline and then some. Why put an engine in with that much torque and spend the money judt to putt arround. Getit out and use it even realitively hard and you will need to add teh cost of a 12 inch front and rear, and atlas transfer case, heavier driveline components across the board. Hell that engine will roll a tooth in teh NP435 once you get everything else bullet proofed the only saving grace is the weight of the bronco may not let you ever get all that torque to the ground.

4BT in a bronco by definition; overdooing it.

But then again so is the 393 stroker I want to build.

Have fun just be aware of the actual costs of this build and don't let teh cool factor cause you to spend more money than you could ever recoup.

 

[blakerj10]

I don't think you would have driveline issues if you upgraded to some good 31 spline axles and good components in the front end.

I put one in my 78 chevy short box. I really do like it. Built it for hunting also. I am using a 14 bolt semi-floater (can't be much different in strength than a good 9") and a 8 lug dana 44 (can put the 297 u joints and axles in a bronco 44). I did break a front u-joint but it was a cheapy brand. With the spicer ones I have had no issues. Also sold the chevy adapter, bought a dodge adapter and starter, then used a dodge diesel NV4500. From there I used a NP 241 out of a ramcharger (I think). I had to change the input shaft on the transfer case. With 33" bfg ats, 3.73 gears, and an OD trans, it really drives great. Works great on trails and down the highway. I average 28 mpg with little effort. I had a high of about 32 but that was with a 50mph tailwind.

The biggest drawback I see is the noise. It is a loud bugger. I did also have it gel up on me once in -20 degree weather. The biggest advantage as I see it is the simpicity. Only one wire to hook up. Very easy to work on.

 

[johnnybgood74]

well, i think i can get it done pretty damn cheap. i will fab it all myself so i can save a ton of cash right there. i am a huge diesel fan and drive a 2011 F-350 for my work truck and absolutely love it! as far as "overdoing it", thats the only way to fly aint it???? it seems that we all over do every damn part on our broncos anyway, right? i can pick up the parts for good prices through my buddy that owns a local junkyard that i used to work at so that helps. as far as the u joints go, im going to run 1350 series which i know will handle the torque with ease. after reading all the opinions, ive decided to go for it!

thanks for the responses guys,

John

 

[00gyrhed]

DUDE THAT 4BT can twist the whole Bronco inot a pretsel

I don't think you would have driveline issues if you upgraded to some good 31 spline axles and good components in the front end.

I put one in my 78 chevy short box. I really do like it. Built it for hunting also. I am using a 14 bolt semi-floater (can't be much different in strength than a good 9") and a 8 lug dana 44 (can put the 297 u joints and axles in a bronco 44). I did break a front u-joint but it was a cheapy brand. With the spicer ones I have had no issues. Also sold the chevy adapter, bought a dodge adapter and starter, then used a dodge diesel NV4500. From there I used a NP 241 out of a ramcharger (I think). I had to change the input shaft on the transfer case. With 33" bfg ats, 3.73 gears, and an OD trans, it really drives great. Works great on trails and down the highway. I average 28 mpg with little effort. I had a high of about 32 but that was with a 50mph tailwind.

The biggest drawback I see is the noise. It is a loud bugger. I did also have it gel up on me once in -20 degree weather. The biggest advantage as I see it is the simpicity. Only one wire to hook up. Very easy to work on.

just because you aint broke parts on your truck is no reson to believe a ford 9" or D44 or D20 and maybe not even an NP435 will live under the kind of abuse you could put to them with the 4BT. Hell these guys tear then up with mild 351s.

Just look at the running gear in the trucks they come out of. Definately heavier than 1/2 ton equipment.

 

[johnnybgood74]

i see your point 00gyrhed, but i have abused the hell out of my 69 chevelle at the drag strip with a 9". granted, its stuffed with a nodular iron case with 35 spline strange hi tuff chromoly axles, and a detroit locker. also has richmond street gears in 4.71 ratio. it has a turbo 400 trans and a 496 BBC with a billet rotating assembly. my point is that i am certain that a 9" can handle anything i could throw at it with a 4BT. just my 2 cents.