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Racer Project

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coachbarnes

coachbarnes

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73stallion said:
i don't think that's the same truck, shaun built several pre runner broncos.
Look close - I'm pretty sure it is. Although it looks much different with those fenders and paint, the one it that pic is advertised as a former SCORE class 3 point winner, and it used to be yellow.

see above
 

73stallion

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okay, maybe i'm thinking of the white one he built that had the funny windshield. i never paid a lot of attention to them a few years ago, i first took a good look at the suspension at FFF this year.

i remember that video you're talking about.
 

broncow72

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i dont think cooling will be an issue,the engine compartment will stay cool without inner fenderwells,which i beleive is most everyones problem. i was down in ocotillo and it was 110 out and i ran about 190,usually i run right at 180, just dont slow down ;)[/QUOTE]

I already miss Ocotillo wells. :-[ We used to hit that place on a regular basis from Poway. I know people don't think 50-60 mph on dirt is that fast, It can be fricken scary when the road turns to a whoop section with 3'+ whoops or the road turns without notice. From my experience (which is admittedly limited) with the baja course, the section from Mikes sky ranch seems to be a pretty hairy down hill run with off camber roads that, when we were there, had rocks the size of large pumpkins in the middle of it from the trophy trucks. I could only imagine the expressions of the guys riding quads. :eek:

what was my point.......oh yea. I agree with the limited travel... 10" of quality design will beat the hell out of 20" of poor design. Limit straps will be your friends. I got a set of Mastercraft four layer straps for about $20-25 ea. Not bad considering they will save your $500+ shocks.
 

west texas kid

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Apr 12, 2005
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Lubbock, Texas Tech
definitly spend a lot of time workin on the suspension, and the most money too. get good shocks, i prefer kings. are you allowed to put on longer rear springs? if so go with some 63 inch deavers sprung under, a lot of guys are gettin 17 or so outta those. in the front are you planning on going with coilovers? or coils and a bypass shock on either side? just wondering cause i would be willing to bet that in bigger races if you were to just have say a 2 or 2.5 coilover you might run into shock fade. im no early bronco expert or desert racing expert, but ive been learning a lot about both over the past few months and so im tryin to offer the best advice i can

wes
 

TexasBronco

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Sep 8, 2002
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Waterford, MI
KISS
( Keep It Simple...Stupid)

Not to bash any of you or anyone but thats what I would do. This is your first time, don't try to build it perfect. Just get a good solid truck and go from there. (Ok now to do some bashing...but its ok cause cause hes a friends) Wes I think safety is where the most time planning and money should be spent. Later down the line you can completely tear out a suspension system if it doesn't work...but cage, seats, belts, and other life saveing parts if done right the first time are good to go for the life of the truck. And keeping with the KISS idea...Big Ole won several times back in the day with little more then a tubed out Bronco and several other simple, reliable and praticle changes.

1973_bronco_baja500.jpg
 
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coachbarnes

coachbarnes

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TexasBronco said:
KISS
( Keep It Simple...Stupid)

Not to bash any of you or anyone but thats what I would do. This is your first time, don't try to build it perfect. Just get a good solid truck and go from there. (Ok now to do some bashing...but its ok cause cause hes a friends) Wes I think safety is where the most time planning and money should be spent. Later down the line you can completely tear out a suspension system if it doesn't work...but cage, seats, belts, and other life saveing parts if done right the first time are good to go for the life of the truck. And keeping with the KISS idea...Big Ole won several times back in the day with little more then a tubed out Bronco and several other simple, reliable and praticle changes.
They're still teachin' that Zig Zigler stuff, huh? ;D hey..if it works...

I like the old school B/W photo, but here's a color version - I love this truck!
 

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broncow72

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TexasBronco said:
KISS
( Keep It Simple...Stupid)

Wes I think safety is where the most time planning and money should be spent. Later down the line you can completely tear out a suspension system if it doesn't work...but cage, seats, belts, and other life saveing parts if done right the first time are good to go for the life of the truck. And keeping with the KISS idea...Big Ole won several times back in the day with little more then a tubed out Bronco and several other simple, reliable and praticle changes.

1973_bronco_baja500.jpg


ummm. what he said ;D .

Big Oly was basic but, it wasn't running a front axle, it was set up with the twin I beam configuration. That alone had to save a couple pounds. I think the engine was set back 11" or so, that will help with the short wheel base. Scotts racer will be a completely different animal in a similar skin.
 
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coachbarnes

coachbarnes

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broncow72 said:
ummm. what he said ;D .

Big Oly was basic but, it wasn't running a front axle, it was set up with the twin I beam configuration. That alone had to save a couple pounds. I think the engine was set back 11" or so, that will help with the short wheel base. Scotts racer will be a completely different animal in a similar skin.
Yep -- right again -- here's a pic of the front. Bet you wanna know where I got all these cool pics, huh? Friends in very high places!! ;D

Alan -- spoke with Alvin today -- he said you were by and looks like I had some hidden rust :'( :'( -- oh well, totally expected that -- let me know what I need to order. He said it's coming apart nicely. I got my Hanson front bumper in today -- man, I pity the fool that hits my '74 in the front! ;D
 

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broncow72

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If snapped a couple shots today so you could see it. The front side of the hinge posts are rusted paper thin. I just got off the phone with Broncohut and they have the pieces for $65 ea. This is the front of the hinge post which run normally $160 complete, fortunately you only need the forward facing piece.
I can't find your E-mail though.
 
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coachbarnes

coachbarnes

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broncow72 said:
If snapped a couple shots today so you could see it. The front side of the hinge posts are rusted paper thin. I just got off the phone with Broncohut and they have the pieces for $65 ea. This is the front of the hinge post which run normally $160 complete, fortunately you only need the forward facing piece.
I can't find your E-mail though.
scott@coachbarnes.com

Thanks for taking some pics! I'll give you a shout manana amigo -- see ya --
 

toddz69

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coachbarnes said:
Yep -- right again -- here's a pic of the front. Bet you wanna know where I got all these cool pics, huh? Friends in very high places!! ;D

Hmmm.....I think I know the punk that took that picture :).

Todd Z.
 

broncow72

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Todd, you might know this, or if anyone else does please reply. The first lift I had on my truck was an oldschool K-S 2 1/2", I was able to jump my truck pretty well with good landing results but it was a bitch on the supermarket parking lot speedbumps. I later went with the JD coils and found that jumping was a serious no-no. Obviously the coils weren't able to handle the compression as well as the stiffer units. In my train of thought the coil is supposed to take the majority of compression and the shock is intended to handle the majority of rebound. Is this wrong? If not, who makes a good spring to handle the compression of serious racing applications like the SCORE series?
 

chuck

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coachbarns, you typed "tube frame", did you mean the cage? I think the rules of score require stock frame.
Also I talked to Mr. Savage, the head SCORE tech guy about FI on the EB in class 3. I ask him 4 times diff ways in the call just to be sure that he did understand that I was talking about the EB that never came with FI. His reply everytime was "As long as it is stock ford FI it is O.K." If you are thinking about going this way give him a call and ask again to be safe.
I was O.K. with the carb last year but I think the FI would get beter mileage, if I could go from 6 to 8 MPG I could maybe pass a few pits.
I think I told you before but to be sure, If you run parts that are interchangeable with what I run and you run with OHR you could cut down on the spare parts cost. We pool the spare parts and spares. I run the 351w and it has more power than I can use, I will be running a C-6 this year and will bring a spare. Why are you planning to run ram ass.? How will you bypass it if it fails? I believe in the KISS idea also.
 

toddz69

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broncow72 said:
Todd, you might know this, or if anyone else does please reply. The first lift I had on my truck was an oldschool K-S 2 1/2", I was able to jump my truck pretty well with good landing results but it was a bitch on the supermarket parking lot speedbumps. I later went with the JD coils and found that jumping was a serious no-no. Obviously the coils weren't able to handle the compression as well as the stiffer units. In my train of thought the coil is supposed to take the majority of compression and the shock is intended to handle the majority of rebound. Is this wrong? If not, who makes a good spring to handle the compression of serious racing applications like the SCORE series?

The old school K-Bar-S springs, that you mention, along with the old red Ranchos, Superlifts, Burbank Spring, etc. were all very stiff (Ranchos are 485 lb./in. rate) as you know, so they fared pretty well with compression on the jumps, as you noted, although they were too harsh for much else. And rebound control had to be terrible, considering the shock technology back in the day. Hence the move to the variable rate springs in the early '90s, which had their own issues. I became a fan of constant rate springs again in the mid '90s after we softened up the rates a bit from the old days.

I'm probably the wrong guy to be asking about the springs for racing applications since I've never actually raced in a coil sprung, solid axle truck, but my recommendation would be to hear what works for Chuck and go from there. Personally, I'd do constant rate springs, like maybe Chuck's "winch springs" for a certain lift. I'd be curious to hear what he uses. I just finished an article on the Moss brothers' Bronco (2nd highest in SCORE Bronco wins of all time) for Bronco Driver and they use a set of National coils, which are probably very similar in rate to what Chuck might use. Then I'd use a good bypass shock at each wheel for control and some tuneability and adjustability.

Todd Z.
 

chuck

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Hi Todd, I run my off the shelf 4.5" coils and the national EB leafs the last 2 years.
Right now I have a set of Devers leafs that are about 12" longer than stock on the rear. I posted some pics on OHR of the new shackles. I rised the spring mounts about 5" and lowered the racer about 3" so I guess I will change the front coils to get level or up a little in the front. My new arms will be tested this year. The triple pass Kings work great. From the first year to the 2ed year the racer lost about 900 lbs and that made it a lot more fun to drive. I think my bottom line is keep it light, KIS and double check every bolt. The little problems we had were easy to find and easy to fix.
 

toddz69

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chuck said:
Hi Todd, I run my off the shelf 4.5" coils and the national EB leafs the last 2 years.
Right now I have a set of Devers leafs that are about 12" longer than stock on the rear. I posted some pics on OHR of the new shackles. I rised the spring mounts about 5" and lowered the racer about 3" so I guess I will change the front coils to get level or up a little in the front. My new arms will be tested this year. The triple pass Kings work great. From the first year to the 2ed year the racer lost about 900 lbs and that made it a lot more fun to drive. I think my bottom line is keep it light, KIS and double check every bolt. The little problems we had were easy to find and easy to fix.

Chuck-what a coincidence, I was just over surfing the OHR site for the first time in quite a few months.......do you have a link to the shackle pics? I couldn't find them. I assume the leafs you have on now were the ones you showed me at the shop in April? Congrats on lowering the truck - that's a good thing!

Todd Z.
 

NicksTrix

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Aug 1, 2001
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sounds like a good set up chuck.
nice talking with you a jason the other night.
nick
 
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