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Rear Axle Housing: Opinions?

walker_creek

Newbie
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
65
Last year I installed a James Duff Torque Tamer using the bolt on bracket instead of welding on the brackets. The Torque Tamer is working great (no more blown out u-joints), but I think all the torque has warped my housing. I can't get the third member to quit leaking. I've torqued the studs enough times that one is spinning. Also it's a small bearing housing and last time I put it together one of the bearing housings had to be locktited.

Anyway, I think it's time to replace the entire housing and tubes. I do want to re-use my third member and gearset. Detroit Locker, 4.88, 31-spline. If I do this I want to go all new. I'd like to keep fabrication to minimum. It's not that I can't do it, I just don't have the time right now.

Suggestions?
 

Wrightracing

Jr. Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
118
I went with a Currie 9in with a back truss and big old style ends. It came as a direct bolt in and I used 1986 Bronco rear drum brakes. Worked great now for 15 years of hard off road. I am running a Detroit Locker, 4.10 gears, 31 spline axles and a Strange Nodular third member.

That was with around a 300hp 302 motor.

Now, I am upgrading to a 408w with around 550hp. My plan for the rear is to go full floater, 5.14 gears, 3.5" tube's and 35 spline axles. I will get a Detroit or Grizzly race locker 35 spline. If I can convert my current Detroit Locker to 35 spline I will. Not sure on that or if its worth it.

It sounds like you would benefit from a back truss on the axle, I would recommend it.

David
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,695
I've found the stock housings a bit weak when asked to start handling larger loads. I built a torque arm (before Duff had theres, may have given a little inspiration to them). The stresses on the housing are a lot more than people think. I was shearing hardware, bending heafty chunks of metal, and even tore open an axle tube once. So I can believe it when you say you think you warped the housing.

As for an upgrade...
How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Which passage do you want to take once you start down that hole? So many options and so many levels. You mentioned a small bearing housing and already having 31 spline axles with all the good stuff in the center section. I see no reason the center sections won't transplant.
But things can get convoluted after that. Do you want to keep the small bearing axles? What about brakes? If you are thinking of doing Explorer disks, now would be the time. Do you want to keep the stock appearing housing, just go to a big banjo? The fabed plate style housings sure are nice. You can find a bare big banjo truck housing from the late 70s or early 80s and just have that cut down and be fairly cheap about it. Or the aftermarket has just about anything for more money.

But I would look to get the torque arm attached to the housing with some welded on brackets instead of using the 3rd member studs.
 

jamesroney

Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
1,952
Loc.
Fremont, CA
I went with a Currie 9in with a back truss and big old style ends. It came as a direct bolt in and I used 1986 Bronco rear drum brakes. Worked great now for 15 years of hard off road. I am running a Detroit Locker, 4.10 gears, 31 spline axles and a Strange Nodular third member.

That was with around a 300hp 302 motor.

Now, I am upgrading to a 408w with around 550hp. My plan for the rear is to go full floater, 5.14 gears, 3.5" tube's and 35 spline axles. I will get a Detroit or Grizzly race locker 35 spline. If I can convert my current Detroit Locker to 35 spline I will. Not sure on that or if its worth it.

It sounds like you would benefit from a back truss on the axle, I would recommend it.

David
This is always the problem with the 9 inch. You always end up bumping up against the strength constraint, and having to spend all the money over again. The minimum size axle for a 33 inch tire is 1.5 inch, 35 spline. Mopar figured it out in 1967, and GM figured it out in 1973. But Ford had to twist off axles until 1984 before they finally got their act together. 31 spline axles are just not up to the task. Never were, never will be. Even the puny Dana 44 in the 1/4 ton Jeep JL gets 32 spline axles.

Problem is, as soon as you want to run 1.5 inch shafts in your 9 inch, you need a new carrier housing. The “normal” 2.891 case, and the “bigger” 3.062 case will not support the bigger shaft. So you have to buy a new 3.25 case, and of course your Detroit won’t fit. And no, you can’t swap side gears. It drives me absolutely bananas. I don’t know how many 9 inch rears I’ve built for people where I’ve thrown away good parts to install slightly better parts.

But if you buy a $75 junkyard Dana 60, and put Torino ends on it…you never have to buy it again. Or better yet, a junkyard 14 bolt from a Chevy. But no…you will spend $3000 to build a weaker axle. You are not alone.
 

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walker_creek

walker_creek

Newbie
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
65
I think it's a good time to ditch the small bearings. I don't know if I can reuse my axles if I go to big bearing. Is the ID of the bearings the same? Or am I going to need new axles?
Having to replace axles wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd definitely like to stick with a 31 spline setup. My locker & gears are just way too new to get rid of.

I agree that it would be the time to upgrade brakes at the same time. How well does the park brake work with the Explorer setup? On & off road rear brake performance has been fine, but I'd really like a park brake that can hold me when I have to stop on a hill. That Currie setup does look slick. I wonder if they would sell it without the differential?

Looking stock is not an issue. About the only thing left that is original is the dash and the VIN number!

I agree that the torque arm needs to get welded brackets. I thought the bolt on would be quicker and easier...I was wrong. And I was kind of taking a chance...I think I probably have a lot more horsepower than Duff recommends for the bolt on bracket.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,379
Companies like Currie, and (in my usual shameless plug kind of way) us at Wild Horses, would definitely sell the housings by themselves.
Or at least they used to. There might be certain housing configurations that they only sell as part of a full assembly, but they made their name in the business by selling beefy housings.
We have our Super-9 housing as well WH Super-9" Housing that you might want to take a look at. Right now it's $595 with Free Shipping.
Big bearing only.
Our weld-on skid plate is on sale too WH 9" Skid Plate and though it should also aid in twisting strength, that's obviously not it's primary function. Plus, it's designed mainly for the stock "banjo" style housings, but pretty sure it can be formed for just about any non-fabricated 9" and welded in place. Can also be used with the back braces that Wrightracing mentioned, with a little judicious grinding/fitting.
I believe this is the style referred to: Back Brace/Truss for 9"
Both the skid plate and the truss were originally intended to be used by themselves, as solutions to different problems. But they can work together if you're not against a little cutting, grinding and banging. Kind of like fitting a front trackbar riser sometimes! :rolleyes:

And to your question, I’m pretty sure the axles don’t interchange. I don't have the stats in front of me, and James can probably verify from memory, but I believe the 31 spline small bearing axles are completely different at the outer end than the 31 spine big bearing. In other words, like you said, different I.D. on the special bearing.
Just like a stock big-bearing has a different I.D. than a stock small bearing.

Paul
 

jamesroney

Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
1,952
Loc.
Fremont, CA
and James can probably verify from memory, but I believe the 31 spline small bearing axles are completely different at the outer end than the 31 spine big bearing. In other words, like you said, different I.D. on the special bearing.
Just like a stock big-bearing has a different I.D. than a stock small bearing.

Paul
Yup, small bearing axle shafts are smaller than big bearing axle shafts.

But there are two different ID’s for the big bearing. One is nominal 1.530 diameter, and the other is nominal 1.562 diameter. I refuse to call the smaller one “small.”

Also need to keep an eye on brake offset. The big ford / Olds pattern is looking for a 2 inch brake offset, good for the 11x1-7/8 drums. The medium duty big bearing (Torino) is looking for 2.5 offset. And the 76-77 big ford pattern wants a 2-3/8 backplate.

So pick your brakes first, then your axles, then a housing to match.

Someone ought to give a big “thanks” to Wild h for figuring it all out for you.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,379
Is the “big” big bearing the Set-20 tapered roller by any chance?
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,695
I don't think there is anything wrong with 31 spline axles for most people in the 33" tire range. Some people have a talent of breaking every mechanical thing they touch and need beefier and beefier parts. But for most non-abusive (or only mildly abusive) use the 31 spline axles have all the beef needed.

If starting with all new parts, 35 spline is nice and for the most part only costs a few dollars for the upgrade. But with an already good center section in 31 spline, run it. There are plenty of other driveline parts that will fail before a 31 spline axle will be an issue.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
6,875
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
I fall in that special talent category.

Me, and I build custom housings, would just order a replacement with axles and your choice of brakes from Wild Horses, it’s easy, it fits and it’s done.

Lots of great information going on here.
 

jamesroney

Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
1,952
Loc.
Fremont, CA
I don't think there is anything wrong with 31 spline axles for most people in the 33" tire range. Some people have a talent of breaking every mechanical thing they touch and need beefier and beefier parts. But for most non-abusive (or only mildly abusive) use the 31 spline axles have all the beef needed.

If starting with all new parts, 35 spline is nice and for the most part only costs a few dollars for the upgrade. But with an already good center section in 31 spline, run it. There are plenty of other driveline parts that will fail before a 31 spline axle will be an issue.

I do not make the rule. The 31 spline axle has proven itself to be necessary and barely adequate in passenger cars. As I indicated before, the Mopar B and E body passenger car runs on F60-15 tires which are 26.27 inches in diameter, and got 1.5 inch 35 spline axles and a power lock. That axle has become legendary.

The front drive axle on a 1978 3/4 ton F250 club cab with snow fighter got you the 1.5 inch 35 spline axles. But the rear axle got you the puny 1-5/16-30 spline. (same idiot engineer in the drive train division.) This front axle is known as the King Pin 60 Sno-fighter and is also legendary.

The 31 spline axle is used on Ford Explorers with 28.8 inch tires and a really crappy traction lock. Every full size passenger car and 1/2 ton pickup and van ended up with the 31 spline 9 inch. The only one that had a decent traction adding device in it was the very rare 69-70 Boss and Cobra Jet Nodular 9 inch with Detroit no-spin. It was perfectly adequate in race car situations with equal traction between tires, and could handle 30 x 10.50 x15 street slicks.

Every Ford 3/4 ton pickup built after 1985 received a Sterling rear axle with 1.5 inch shafts. Every single 3/4 ton Chevy pickup built after 1972 With the 14bolt got 1-9/16 x 30 splines. Every Dodge with a Cummins got 1.5 inch shafts. All legendary.

The Ford 9 inch is the outlier. It was used in high performance cars, and in Stock Cars for decades as the standard. It has become legendary. But its legend is built on a false premise. The Ford 9 inch can be made to be extremely strong, and durable. But it usually isn't. Aftermarket companies like Strange, Mark Williams, Currie, True Hi-9 and others have worked to make the 9 inch into what it has become. But it ain't STOCK.

The biggest thing that people (and designers) neglect is the vast increase in torque on a single axle with a positive locking differential. It changes everything. It is the reason why some people will tell you that the Dana 30 can handle 35's all day long, and others will tell you that a Dana 44 can't handle 33's. As soon as you throw in a locker, you have the real world potential for 100% torque on a single shaft. This NEVER happens on the race track, or on the street. Fact is...99% of all applications work just fine with an open diff. And for that last 1%...a torque bias of about 20% is all you ever need. So a crappy, cheap, unreliable clutch type posi is all most people get. Once you throw in a locker, and you USE it, the axle shafts see tremendous load, and they fail. Then they grow.

This is why you see 1/4 ton Jeep TJ's on the trail running rear 7.5 and 8 inch ring gears...with 1.5 inch 35 spline shafts. But those same shafts in a full size get an 11.5 inch ring gear.

But I totally agree. If you leave your Bronco on the trailer...the 31 spline shafts seem to hold up just fine. And I agree with @Yeller on the build vs buy thing. It's awfully convenient to click on an item and put it in your cart. then a few weeks later, a truck shows up with a bolt in axle that will work perfectly.

But it's also kinda fun to find a used GM 14 bolt from a M1009 CUCV with 4.56 gears and a factory Detroit Locker and bolt it into your Bronco for $500.
 

Madgyver

Contributor
Bronco Madman
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,924
I "found" this for a $100.
 

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Wrightracing

Jr. Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
118
In racing applications I would never run anything smaller then a 35 spline on a mini truck with 35x12.50 tires and a V6 under 300 foot pounds of torque motor. 40 spline is the standard in a full size and now seeing bigger 43 spline sometimes.

All that being said, In a Full-size 1986 Bronco running 35x12.50x15, under 300 HP and torque, I have been running a Currie 9+ with Strange 31 spline semi floater axles, 4.10 gears and a Detroit Locker.

The reason I am going bigger and full floater is the 37X12.50 tires, 5.14 gears and 550hp. I am also upgrading the front to Snow Fighter Dana 50 axles with 35 spline and 1350 joints. I will be putting Dana 50 beam ends on Dana 44 housings with a ARB air locker.

My 31 spline setup has survived 20+ year's and by no means have I been soft on driving in Baja and the local deserts.
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David
 

Wrightracing

Jr. Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
118
The reason I have not gone to a 14 bolt or a Stirling is unsprung weight. If I was a rock crawler, I would do 1 tons, but in a go fast desert and dunes rig, weight is an issue. I really noticed the weight difference of the 14 Bolt over a 9in and even steel Hummer 24 Bolt double beadlock's with 37X12.50R16.5LT and the heavy run flat donut inside. On my Bronco I will be running aluminum beadlocks.

The heavier it is the more likely you are to break other stuff and the snowball effect is in motion. Ugh, just like horse power on the drive train.

Just like all those young ladies worry about, it is a weight thing

David
 

rguest3

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
3,780
Last year I installed a James Duff Torque Tamer using the bolt on bracket instead of welding on the brackets. The Torque Tamer is working great (no more blown out u-joints), but I think all the torque has warped my housing. I can't get the third member to quit leaking. I've torqued the studs enough times that one is spinning. Also it's a small bearing housing and last time I put it together one of the bearing housings had to be locktited.

Anyway, I think it's time to replace the entire housing and tubes. I do want to re-use my third member and gearset. Detroit Locker, 4.88, 31-spline. If I do this I want to go all new. I'd like to keep fabrication to minimum. It's not that I can't do it, I just don't have the time right now.

Suggestions?
I agree with Paul.

Wild Horses Super 9. You will need to swap out axles for the Big Bearing housing.
 

RODRIG3911

Contributor
Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
987
Loc.
Tucson
I've been running the WH Super 9" for a few years now, and it's been great. I've beat on it a bunch with no issues. My rear setup
is Detroit, 4.11's and 31 spline chorme molly axles.
 

nvrstuk

Contributor
Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
9,419
Loc.
PNW
Love great detailed threads like these.

Weight difference btw a bare aftermarket 9" fabbed housing (I didn't weigh a stock 9" housing which will ALWAYS bend) and a bare stock 14 bolt housing is less than 15#'s I recall. I weighed them both and it's on my build list here on CB. I have accurate weight differences between a frt HP D60 Snofighter and a stock '77 EB Dana44 also... I'd have to double check but I recall it being less than 55#'s.

So weight for going with a 14 bolt over an aftermarket fabbed 9" housing shouldn't be a deal killer. My 9" I weighed was a RuffStuff fabbed housing.

So much good stuff here. Like Steve said, buy a fabbed housing and bolt your stuff to it and go. The key is brakes- get that all figured out first and when you order the housing tell them what you have so the offsets, etc will work. What a royal pita Ford seems to make for swapping anything anywhere on a vehicle! :(

Simple and relatively cheap = aftermarket housing and use your guts

Not quite as simple but cheap and super tough with stock parts = 14 bolt that you finance with selling your stuff (you will never break/bend it within reason)

What James said about torque is what 90% of wheelers don't hear AND don't understand. You have weight transfer, large tires, 100% lockers, gear reduction and more gear reduction and add traction to all this and splines literally just twist off at idle. People think you need 600ft lbs torque, heavy throttle, bouncing up and down trying to get over a rock ledge to break/twist parts off. They are clueless. I have twisted so much stuff off at idle or just above that people think I must be a crazy driver off road. Anybody that's been wheeling with me knows the opposite - unless it's sand and snow- that's a 100% different animal. lol After building D44's as strong as they can be stock and also building 9" with fabbed housings, dbl splined FF axles I finally did what I should have done 40 yrs ago... swapped in frt HP D60 and rear 14 bolt. So much less carnage.

Figure out your preferred wheeling and make your decisions for your new rear end off that.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress!

PS I know you run a Detroit but if you decide to go with a 9" with 35 spline axles and decide to go with an ARB something to carefully consider is that the 35 spline ARB is weaker than the 31 spline ARB unless you go with their Competition unit made with exotic alloys. The 9" third member is so compact that you run out of space for enought "meat"/material to keep it together. I have twisted the 35 spline ones in half but never the 31 spline units and when talking to the ARB techs that are out in the field they will attest to this.
 
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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,379
But there are two different ID’s for the big bearing. One is nominal 1.530 diameter, and the other is nominal 1.562 diameter. I refuse to call the smaller one “small.”
And just so anyone new to this was wondering about the two sizes of large bearing comment, there is still only one size large bearing when talking about Early Broncos.
The Set-20 tapered rollers were never found on '66-'77 Broncos. Only on full-size trucks, and probably some of the heavier cars James was referring to. Not sure about all the applications, but as far as our Broncos go, we only got the small and large sealed ball bearing setups.
There are multiple variations on bolt pattern and size of the housing ends, but the pocket that the bearings fit into on the ends of the housing are just two sizes. Small and large.

The heavier duty Set-20 tapered roller and the standard duty "large" ball bearing fit into the same outer diameter pocket. But while the standard sealed ball bearing found in Broncos sat relatively flush with the housing flange end, the Set-20 sticks out proud of the housing end and uses a different style of retainer.
The axle shafts do not interchange either, so you can't install a bearing made for one axle, on to a shaft made for the other bearing. James pointed that out by listing the different inside diameters. Far too much for a good install on the wrong axle.

Whenever you don't know the history of the vehicle, when replacing rear wheel bearings, it just makes good sense to try to measure first.
A member here ran into that dilemma when replacing unexplained multiple failed bearings.

Paul
 
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