Over the weekend I finished the first upgrade to my Bronco, 4 new Bilsteins. I've now graduated from being scared to drive over 20 mph to being able to drive 30 mph. Definitely a huge improvement as I was able to compress the old shocks by hand and they just..... stayed compressed. Anyway, I was wondering if it would be wise to replace the old coils next (would go with the James Duff 2.5), or if I'd be better off leaving them and doing something else next.
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Replace old front coil springs?
- Thread starter Armymedic
- Start date
SteveL
Huge chevy guy
If you start changing spring lengths you will need new shock to match.
Sorry, I should have clarified. There was already a 2.5” lift installed. I’m not sure how old it is but given the condition of the old struts I’m guessing it was done quite a while ago. I wasn’t sure how much extra strain was put on the coils given the terrible condition of the struts and if it would warrant going ahead and replacing them as well.
SteveL
Huge chevy guy
Depending how old the springs are the newer bronco specific ones from our vendors ride much better. If it's all over the road its probably do for all new bushings up front while you're at it.
tatersalad
Bronco Guru
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- Jan 17, 2009
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The newer springs are designed to have a better ride.
bronconut73
Bronco Guru
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- Aug 7, 2012
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New bushings will really give it a good solid feel too.
Today's eb specific coil springs are far superior to even just 20 years ago. Duffs are arguably the best.
Another thing to consider at 2.5" is the trac bar drop bracket and dropped pitman arm. It is true that it is not technically needed with 2.5" it will help with bump steer and steering feel.
Today's eb specific coil springs are far superior to even just 20 years ago. Duffs are arguably the best.
Another thing to consider at 2.5" is the trac bar drop bracket and dropped pitman arm. It is true that it is not technically needed with 2.5" it will help with bump steer and steering feel.
Hi, it sounds like there is room for improvement on your suspension.
Post a picture of the front end from under the front bumper.
Did you check for worn parts like tie rod ends and ball joints?
Are the strut end bushings worn and are they rubber or polyurathane?
What air pressure do you run? Most guys run under 30 PSI.
This all makes a difference.
Get all the parts in top shape, learn how to measure the "toe in" and then get take it to an alignment shop and tell them you want the numbers, either a print out or a screen shot.
Before you start changing springs I would measure the ride height from 8 places. I would measure the body ride height at the corner of the bumpers, and the chassis ride height at 4 points on the chassis by each wheel, and keep these numbers for future reference. If one corner is lower then the rest you may have a sagging or broken spring. If you get new springs the numbers will probably change so it is good to know where you started from.
Good luck
Post a picture of the front end from under the front bumper.
Did you check for worn parts like tie rod ends and ball joints?
Are the strut end bushings worn and are they rubber or polyurathane?
What air pressure do you run? Most guys run under 30 PSI.
This all makes a difference.
Get all the parts in top shape, learn how to measure the "toe in" and then get take it to an alignment shop and tell them you want the numbers, either a print out or a screen shot.
Before you start changing springs I would measure the ride height from 8 places. I would measure the body ride height at the corner of the bumpers, and the chassis ride height at 4 points on the chassis by each wheel, and keep these numbers for future reference. If one corner is lower then the rest you may have a sagging or broken spring. If you get new springs the numbers will probably change so it is good to know where you started from.
Good luck
Thanks for all the replies. There is definitely a lot of work to be done and I imagine that I'll be replacing everything eventually, but I'm not sure what the best order to work in would be. Like most of us I'm on a budget and would like to go for the biggest improvements first, that way I can at least drive around town while waiting for the next upgrade.
It appears that nearly every bushing needs to be replaced and they are of the rubber variety. It looks like there is a lean of maybe 1/2" to the driver's side. It was much more pronounced before I replaced the Rancheros as well as a significant squat in the back that is now much better. The old leaf springs still look pretty terrible.
I'm not sure what I should go for first, but the steering feels pretty loose. It wanders/pulls a good bit even after changing the struts but I can go about 10 mph faster than I felt safe doing before. It also pulls while braking. I haven't noticed a specific side it pulls to, just whichever it wants to compensate to at the time.
For the next fix I've been looking at the Duff 2.5" coils, the WH 3-way adjustable tie rod/drag link kit, or new leaf springs. I plan on only street driving if that helps.
For the trac bar drop bracket, is that the way to go? I saw some stuff suggesting that a riser was better, but again, I don't plan on taking it off-road so maybe the extra strain on the frame isn't anything to worry about. I also saw that the adjustable trac bar isn't needed and a simple bushing swap should be enough. Is that still the prevailing thought?
It appears that nearly every bushing needs to be replaced and they are of the rubber variety. It looks like there is a lean of maybe 1/2" to the driver's side. It was much more pronounced before I replaced the Rancheros as well as a significant squat in the back that is now much better. The old leaf springs still look pretty terrible.
I'm not sure what I should go for first, but the steering feels pretty loose. It wanders/pulls a good bit even after changing the struts but I can go about 10 mph faster than I felt safe doing before. It also pulls while braking. I haven't noticed a specific side it pulls to, just whichever it wants to compensate to at the time.
For the next fix I've been looking at the Duff 2.5" coils, the WH 3-way adjustable tie rod/drag link kit, or new leaf springs. I plan on only street driving if that helps.
For the trac bar drop bracket, is that the way to go? I saw some stuff suggesting that a riser was better, but again, I don't plan on taking it off-road so maybe the extra strain on the frame isn't anything to worry about. I also saw that the adjustable trac bar isn't needed and a simple bushing swap should be enough. Is that still the prevailing thought?
Attachments
Might want to address that leaky rear pinion seal...
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
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- 48,236
Rancho springs are officially a 3" lift and it looks like you're still there. They rarely sag, at least partly due to how stiff they are. Almost 500lbs per inch compared to nearer 200lbs initial rate for a modern variable rate coil like ours at Wild Horses or Duff's. With even the secondary heavier rate pushing roughly 375lbs, it's still less than the Ranchos.
A much better match for your new Bilstein shocks.
The Rancho coils were basically a 1.5" leveling coil for the F150, but since they fit the Bronco and lifted it a nice and tidy 3" instead, were just used as-is in the Bronco.
Depending on what you are shooting for, a 2.5" replacement might be a better match than a 3.5" but that's up to you. Also depending on what the shocks were for, but it's a bet they were for 2-4 inches of lift, so you're good either way.
The rear was done with an add-a-leaf, so you're probably more stiff and harsh than would otherwise be the case.
Your steering is a bit out of whack on a couple of aspects. Not sure why they mangled your steering stabilizer mounting so much, but they did. If it works, then fine. But I would change it back to "stock" anyway and see if that helps the steering. Sounds like yours is not filling you with confidence and happiness at the way it drives currently, so a few changes are probably in order.
At the very least it's imparting some "rotation" to the tie-rod and is wearing out the rod ends much sooner than they would otherwise wear. Is the steering loosey-goosey feeling?
Have you done the test yet with a helper racking the steering wheel back and forth while you watch the front end to see what's going on? Can be a real eye-opener!
For some reason your trackbar and draglink are not parallel. With no drop bracket or pitman arm, and a stock tie-rod they should be much more parallel than they are. Is your steering box a replacement? Looks like a stock one from here, but perhaps it's something else? Or maybe a non-stock pitman arm? That looks stock too, but we'll have to figure that one out. It's certainly not helping your steering though.
The lack of a drop bracket is also why your axle has shifted to the driver's side (3" of lift will do that) and why especially your driver's side coils is bowed out so much. More than the passenger side, which is typical of this kind of setup. Might even have some sacked out coil spring cups and retainers as well. Just adding to any misalignment of the coil springs between the upper towers and the lower cups.
And your old RS9000's were not possibly pressurized gas shocks, so not extending on their own by itself does not necessarily indicate being worn out.
Looks like you already have replacement polyurethane C-bushings, but likely there is no way to tell what degree offset they are, or whether they were correctly installed or not.
But we might be able to tell that from the angle of the front differential pinion as it relates to the driveshaft. Or some good close-up pics of the sides of the C-bushings as well.
Speaking of driveshaft angles, your rear looks a bit high to me. But hard to tell from pics. When you've got nothing better to do, maybe check the pinion angle vs the driveshaft angle and let us know what's up with it.
What is the age of the tires? Look up the date code on the sidewall and see what you find. If they're old, it does not matter what the wear is, as they can and often will drive like crap after a certain age. Tried to save a few old ones myself, and it rarely works out for the better.
That enough to keep you busy for awhile?
;D
Paul
A much better match for your new Bilstein shocks.
The Rancho coils were basically a 1.5" leveling coil for the F150, but since they fit the Bronco and lifted it a nice and tidy 3" instead, were just used as-is in the Bronco.
Depending on what you are shooting for, a 2.5" replacement might be a better match than a 3.5" but that's up to you. Also depending on what the shocks were for, but it's a bet they were for 2-4 inches of lift, so you're good either way.
The rear was done with an add-a-leaf, so you're probably more stiff and harsh than would otherwise be the case.
Your steering is a bit out of whack on a couple of aspects. Not sure why they mangled your steering stabilizer mounting so much, but they did. If it works, then fine. But I would change it back to "stock" anyway and see if that helps the steering. Sounds like yours is not filling you with confidence and happiness at the way it drives currently, so a few changes are probably in order.
At the very least it's imparting some "rotation" to the tie-rod and is wearing out the rod ends much sooner than they would otherwise wear. Is the steering loosey-goosey feeling?
Have you done the test yet with a helper racking the steering wheel back and forth while you watch the front end to see what's going on? Can be a real eye-opener!
For some reason your trackbar and draglink are not parallel. With no drop bracket or pitman arm, and a stock tie-rod they should be much more parallel than they are. Is your steering box a replacement? Looks like a stock one from here, but perhaps it's something else? Or maybe a non-stock pitman arm? That looks stock too, but we'll have to figure that one out. It's certainly not helping your steering though.
The lack of a drop bracket is also why your axle has shifted to the driver's side (3" of lift will do that) and why especially your driver's side coils is bowed out so much. More than the passenger side, which is typical of this kind of setup. Might even have some sacked out coil spring cups and retainers as well. Just adding to any misalignment of the coil springs between the upper towers and the lower cups.
And your old RS9000's were not possibly pressurized gas shocks, so not extending on their own by itself does not necessarily indicate being worn out.
Looks like you already have replacement polyurethane C-bushings, but likely there is no way to tell what degree offset they are, or whether they were correctly installed or not.
But we might be able to tell that from the angle of the front differential pinion as it relates to the driveshaft. Or some good close-up pics of the sides of the C-bushings as well.
Speaking of driveshaft angles, your rear looks a bit high to me. But hard to tell from pics. When you've got nothing better to do, maybe check the pinion angle vs the driveshaft angle and let us know what's up with it.
What is the age of the tires? Look up the date code on the sidewall and see what you find. If they're old, it does not matter what the wear is, as they can and often will drive like crap after a certain age. Tried to save a few old ones myself, and it rarely works out for the better.
That enough to keep you busy for awhile?
;DPaul
Broncobowsher
Total hack
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2002
- Messages
- 35,185
The steering angles are a little deciptive. You need to look at pivot points, not the actual rod angles. That drag link has a kink at the bottom (looks like it is intentional). Draw a line between the dots.
That was a trick Bronco when it was built, 20-25 years ago.
As for the rear springs, I am seeing double add-a-leafs. Gets you height, but pretty rigid. Back in the day when you didn't need to lower the bumpstops because the springs could never compress that far.
It looks like your upper track bar bolt is walking around. The frame hole may even be wallowed out. That track bar is very important on a coil spring front suspension. If it moves around, it will be super scary to drive. Without it, completely undrivable, as in you can't even drive it in and out of the garage, might as well take the steering wheel off and throw it away.
For a next project, redo the track bar and inspect everything (frame holes, axle stud) very carefully.
That was a trick Bronco when it was built, 20-25 years ago.
As for the rear springs, I am seeing double add-a-leafs. Gets you height, but pretty rigid. Back in the day when you didn't need to lower the bumpstops because the springs could never compress that far.
It looks like your upper track bar bolt is walking around. The frame hole may even be wallowed out. That track bar is very important on a coil spring front suspension. If it moves around, it will be super scary to drive. Without it, completely undrivable, as in you can't even drive it in and out of the garage, might as well take the steering wheel off and throw it away.
For a next project, redo the track bar and inspect everything (frame holes, axle stud) very carefully.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 48,236
The better way to correct the steering of any lifted EB is a drop bracket and pitman arm (usually both are used together to keep the bars parallel) rather than an adjustable trackbar alone. But they often work well together, with the adjustable bar allowing for more fine-tuning of the axle position within the frame.
Depends on how much lift you settle on, but I prefer the drop myself, but have both on mine.
As was said earlier, it has been said that you don't need any of this corrective stuff until you go over 2" of lift. But you are in fact over that already, and will likely stick with it. And any time you lift a Bronco's suspension at all, you're shifting the location of the axle to the left and changing the orientation of the steering gearbox's internal mesh as well.
So I'm a fan of the drop bracket and pitman arm obviously.
Neither take the place of new bushings and sleeves however. If they're needed, they're needed. And often as not, the upper trackbar bolt has wobbled out the hole, as was already suggested as well. This bolt is also subject to heavy rust and may be found to be compromised.
Not a bolt you want to experience breaking! Ever!
Always worth checking that stuff out. In fact if you do the test I mentioned you will see everything that needs to be addressed.
This is where, with the tires fully on the ground, a helper steers the steering wheel back and forth repeatedly, perhaps a half-turn in each direction, while you sit under the front and watch everything regarding linkage, suspension, steering box and even wheels and tires.
As the wheels are forced left and right under the weight of the truck and the resistance of the tires on the ground, if anything is loose or worn you will see excess play in that component. Whether it's a tie-rod end, the gearbox on the frame, or the trackbar moving on it's mounts, any movement at all is a bad thing.
You can even watch to see if that location of the steering stabilizer is putting any force into the linkage and forcing the tie-rod to roll up and down when you steer left and right.
A loose trackbar will really let the vehicle wander on the road. Loose wheel bearings and wheels and other things will contribute too.
While the helper is still turning the wheel, you can even step to the back of the vehicle and watch the rear springs and mounts to see if they are moving and flexing in a way that's not normal.
Lots to see during this test. And it will give you a direction to proceed to make your Bronco more of a 40mph rig!
Don't forget air pressures. It's something we can always do quickly and inexpensively. Like free! Which is a good thing.
Paul
Depends on how much lift you settle on, but I prefer the drop myself, but have both on mine.
As was said earlier, it has been said that you don't need any of this corrective stuff until you go over 2" of lift. But you are in fact over that already, and will likely stick with it. And any time you lift a Bronco's suspension at all, you're shifting the location of the axle to the left and changing the orientation of the steering gearbox's internal mesh as well.
So I'm a fan of the drop bracket and pitman arm obviously.
Neither take the place of new bushings and sleeves however. If they're needed, they're needed. And often as not, the upper trackbar bolt has wobbled out the hole, as was already suggested as well. This bolt is also subject to heavy rust and may be found to be compromised.
Not a bolt you want to experience breaking! Ever!
Always worth checking that stuff out. In fact if you do the test I mentioned you will see everything that needs to be addressed.
This is where, with the tires fully on the ground, a helper steers the steering wheel back and forth repeatedly, perhaps a half-turn in each direction, while you sit under the front and watch everything regarding linkage, suspension, steering box and even wheels and tires.
As the wheels are forced left and right under the weight of the truck and the resistance of the tires on the ground, if anything is loose or worn you will see excess play in that component. Whether it's a tie-rod end, the gearbox on the frame, or the trackbar moving on it's mounts, any movement at all is a bad thing.
You can even watch to see if that location of the steering stabilizer is putting any force into the linkage and forcing the tie-rod to roll up and down when you steer left and right.
A loose trackbar will really let the vehicle wander on the road. Loose wheel bearings and wheels and other things will contribute too.
While the helper is still turning the wheel, you can even step to the back of the vehicle and watch the rear springs and mounts to see if they are moving and flexing in a way that's not normal.
Lots to see during this test. And it will give you a direction to proceed to make your Bronco more of a 40mph rig!
Don't forget air pressures. It's something we can always do quickly and inexpensively. Like free! Which is a good thing.
Paul
Bushings should be a priority! If the ones you have are wore out like you said then they will be the cause of most of the squirrelly handling.
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
- Messages
- 7,967
A bit on shocks, yours won't rebound like you mentioned, they are not gas, just plain old style shocks. Even then, you could compress them by hand although very slowly and with effort needed, anything faster and they are shot, probably are shot due to age.
I could compress all 4 of the old Rancheros quite easily. I did the rock/bounce test on the corners and it would have 3-5 large bounces and then still some wobble afterwards. Once I put in the Bilsteins I can push down hard and it pops right back up in one shot and is super solid.
Ok, some updates. I had my wife attempt to move the wheel while I checked on things underneath. I didn't notice any movement at the steering box but the upper bolt of the trac bar definitely had some movement. The tires are from 2012 if I'm reading correctly.
The main reason I was going to do 2.5" instead of 3.5" was to avoid the need to move any lines or go with the drop stuff. If I should add the drop arm and bracket anyway then 3.5" would be fine by me. Is there any reason to go 3.5" over 2.5"? I've been looking at the Method Grid wheels (17x8.5) and would like to run 35s. Was also planning on a 1" BL and the gorilla warflares.
The main reason I was going to do 2.5" instead of 3.5" was to avoid the need to move any lines or go with the drop stuff. If I should add the drop arm and bracket anyway then 3.5" would be fine by me. Is there any reason to go 3.5" over 2.5"? I've been looking at the Method Grid wheels (17x8.5) and would like to run 35s. Was also planning on a 1" BL and the gorilla warflares.
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- Nov 28, 2001
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- 10,307
I always try to run as low a lift as possible. I think with a 2.5" lift and 1" BL and Gorilla flares that you can run 35s without any/many issues.
Todd Z.
englewoodcowboy
Lick Creek Restorations
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 4,200
I would look at new bushings, urethane only has a 10 year life expectancy and a new set of Duff's 2.5" 3 stage coils. You will be very surprised at the ride quality. Duffs coils sit at about 3" which will be close to your current springs.
