?Reverse C bushing will it fix this?

[Geiri]

I just lifted the engine/AOD and transfer case in
this seems too steep. I used old rubber in between.
Question will a 7° reversed C bushing tackle this?
I've read that some do.



And should I be worried about the upper pinion bearing?

 

[399strokerEB]

Are you using stock bushings currently?

 

[Geiri]

Are you using stock bushings currently?

Yes very worn stock bushings

 

[399strokerEB]

Do you know what your current caster is?

 

[Geiri]

Do you know what your current caster is?

No I don't.
Looks close to zero.
The spindles the could use a few degrees

 

[DirtDonk]

What amount of lift? Are the engine and transmission in the standard locations, and at standard angles?
The radius arms usually have some extra caster built into them. What arms are those? Un-coated Duff?
From the tiny pics posted, I can't see any real issues yet. In fact, it looks like the pinion is pointed up above the centerline of the driveshaft. If so, then adding degreed C-bushings would actually help both the pinion angle and the caster.
What axle/diff? Are those full-width, or standard? High-pinion, or standard?

Any chance you can link to some larger images? Maybe upload them to your gallery or garage functions?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Nevermind. It just took a bit for things to normalize on my computer, and now I can click on the images to enlarge them.
Looks like a high-pinion diff with the pinion pointed too high. So yes, you need C-bushings, but not reversed. Since they are designed to lower the pinion angle, installing them the normal way will get you more of what you need.
What about lift? If it's a tall lift, then you'll also need to watch your upper double-cardan jointed angle.

By the way, is the vehicle fully assembled at this point? Or still lacking certain things? Looks like an awful tall lift from here.

Paul

 

[Geiri]

Nevermind. It just took a bit for things to normalize on my computer, and now I can click on the images to enlarge them.
Looks like a high-pinion diff with the pinion pointed too high. So yes, you need C-bushings, but not reversed. Since they are designed to lower the pinion angle, installing them the normal way will get you more of what you need.
What about lift? If it's a tall lift, then you'll also need to watch your upper double-cardan jointed angle.

By the way, is the vehicle fully assembled at this point? Or still lacking certain things? Looks like an awful tall lift from here.

Paul

Sorry, I click the corners of uploaded photos and drag them to a clickable thumbnail.
This is a 3.5 inch springs and yes, Duffs long arms. The Bronco is not fully assembled.
And yes a high pinion D44 full width axles
So @DirtDonk I might have been thinking this wrong. Under load the front pinion will seek down?

The status

The driveshaft mockup

I had two sets of 7° bushings and oddly they are very different
The Black one has more lip on the lover inside.
They turn the same way. I guess the blue one is trash.

 

[DirtDonk]

Not really “down” so to speak. But it just does change relative to the ground.
The pinion angle follows a linear path with the radius arms. So whatever the degree of angle of the pinion, compared to the radius arms now, will not change. Only its angle relative to the ground. C-bushings change the angle relative to the radius arms, and driveshaft.

So yes, as the suspension compresses, I suppose the pinion angle does go down.
Not with relation to the driveshaft either necessarily. But with the ground certainly.
If you want to mock things up, or know what you have, then you have to compress the suspension to its expected height.
That would be roughly 10 1/2 inches between the top of the axle tube in the bottom of the frame rail in the front.
You can use ratchet straps to bring it down, or easier would be to cut some pieces of wood or metal to that length, set them in place and remove the springs entirely.

 

[DirtDonk]

I had two sets of 7° bushings and oddly they are very different
The Black one has more lip on the lover inside.
They turn the same way. I guess the blue one is trash.

Maybe they weren’t both actually 7° bushings.
The black ones do look like they have more offset. And even though the two different brands might have different side flange designs, the amount of offset they impart into the axle is usually indicative of the visible difference inside.
Be nice if you had all three types to compare to, of course, but if I had to guess I’d say the blue ones were 4, or maybe only 2° offsets.

It could be wrong, of course. Specially when looking at them in pictures on a small screen. But I agree they sure look different.

 

[Speedrdr]

And it may be an optical illusion. Stack the blue one on top of the black one (assuming you have them oriented the same) and shoot a picture straight down from directly above…or just look at them and decide if the angles are the same.

Randy

 

[Oldtimer]

They usually have angle & placement location molded in them.

 

[Hallboss]

I'd use the Duff 7 degree black, just installed them on my lifted 73 and it made a difference. PO installed the lift but never changed the C-bushings, huge improvement!

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks for the additional pics Hallboss. With 5.5" of lift and 7 degree bushings, how're your pinion and double-cardan angles? Workable so far?
Got pics of those areas?

Paul

 

[Hallboss]

The angle still sucks, but is workable with the double cardan. I'll take pics today.

 

[jamesroney]

This is a 3.5 inch springs and yes, Duffs long arms.
And yes a high pinion D44 full width axles
So @DirtDonk I might have been thinking this wrong. Under load the front pinion will seek down?

I will be more direct than @DirtDonk The answer is YES. To use your wording, the pinion will seek down under load. Or, if it is easier to imagine, the pinion will seek up as the suspension is unloaded.

I have made this recommendation many times before. So I will do it once again. PLEASE go and cut 4 pieces of wooden blocks. (preferably a 4x4) 2 pieces should be 6.5 + 3.5 = 10 inches long for the rear, and 7 + 3.5 = 10.5 inches long for the front. Use these blocks as gages between the axle tube, and the frame.

Do not make any measurement, (especially caster) without these blocks installed. It is easiest to install the front blocks with the coil springs left out. Rear blocks can be easily installed with a pair of ratchet straps. When the gage blocks are installed, then you can accurately predict all of your angles, and your necessary clearances. If you do not have the gage blocks installed, you are introducing too much error.

When I see caster near zero on a welded wedge Dana 44 High Pinion, I always suspect incorrect C- bushings. There are many 78-79 Dana 44 High Pinion axles under Early Broncos at 3.5 inch lift. So it is not unique.

 

[Geiri]

Thank you all for the great advice. Things are looking much better after just lowering the front.
I will use you advice @jamesroney But why do you talk about 6.5 + 3.5 = 10 inches long in to separate measures? Why not just 10 inches?

I did take some additional photos of the C bushings
They are both 7° but bought from different vendors. I don't think it matters who sold who.
Butt we ought to be aware of this. I have no idea what this means other than they will not work the same

I will keep you updated on the progress here.

Click, and click the photos to enlarge

Top view. Facing the same way

Front bottom facing up and a leveler. Difference

Rear bottom leveler. Equal

 

[jamesroney]

Thank you all for the great advice. Things are looking much better after just lowering the front.
I will use you advice @jamesroney .

I did take some additional photos of the C bushings
They are both 7° but bought from different vendors. I don't think it matters who sold who.
Butt we ought to be aware of this. I have no idea what this means other than they will not work the same

I will keep you updated on the progress here.

Click the photos to enlarge

Top view. Facing the same way

Front bottom facing up and a leveler. Difference

Rear bottom leveler. Equal

Your analysis is inadequate. The flexibility and umconstrained angle of the “fold” will impact that measurement. If you want to compare performance, you must constrain the urethane bushing as the c-cap will.

It is useful to install the bushings on a radius arm and measure the angle. You will find that both brands are similar in result.

 

[Oldtimer]

But why do you talk about 6.5 + 3.5 = 10 inches long in to separate measures? Why not just 10 inches?

For the rear:
6.5" is clearance between axle and frame of STOCK suspension (constant)
3.5" is amount of suspension lift produced by selected springs (variable)

The constant dimension for front axle is 7".

 

[Hallboss]

Thanks for the additional pics Hallboss. With 5.5" of lift and 7 degree bushings, how're your pinion and double-cardan angles? Workable so far?
Got pics of those areas?

Paul

Here you go Paul!