Saginaw Pump on Explorer Serpentine

[EricLar80]

Has anyone looked into creating a bracket that would allow someone to use a saginaw pump with an Explorer serpentine setup? I know a lot of people are happy with the Explorer pump, but I am not too thrilled on it due to the location getting in the way of the upper radiator hose, and I a prefer to not have a separate reservoir. Of course, I want to retain the explorer belt location since it gives so much room between the fan and the radiator.

My upper radiator hose looks something like the the one in the tech section for the Explorer serpentine - snaked around the reservoir (image taken from tech article):

Since I don't use the AC pump, and don't plan to have AC anytime soon, I would like to fit the saginaw someplace down there. I have been playing around with the design of a bracket in solidworks. Of course, having a 351w based motor, it is already a tight squeeze, and the saginaw pump is pretty large. Anyway, here is what I am working on:

You can see that I am keeping the idler pulley. It should also be located such that the upper radiator hose from the GTO would fit. I plan to affix it to the head similarly to the explorer drivers side bracket with the 3 bolt holes in the head.

My goal is to use a pump off of a late model chevy truck (ACDELCO Part # 15909826) since you can still buy them new, they had hydroboost and they have huge resevoirs. Also just going to use the off the shelf dorman pulley (#300200).

I've already bought the pump and pulley. Just looking for a little feedback before I commit to making the bracket. I think it should also give more room between the bracket and the TFI on the dizzy, so no need to worry about adjusting the timing...

Thanks

Eric

 

[EricLar80]

Here is how it sits approximately to the existing setup (not perfectly aligned due to the skew in the photo of the engine).

Eric

 

[KyleQ]

I like this idea myself - the Explorer pumps are good (well, my PSC pump is good) and we can all agree it sits too high, this would solve that...

I've got a spare bracket and pump - just need to pull my trail truck apart to replicate the spacers..


I would say you could mount a Sag pump like this as well - just a simple bracket that bolts where the A/C sits and you have TONS of room for a big reservoir to properly feed the pump.

 

[thegreatjustino]

I'm not running the Explorer serp setup, but I have had one in my garage for years. When I first got it and heard people's complaints about the Explorer pump, I spent several weekends looking at and measuring the bracket to see if I could cut, notch, trim, grind, and weld as necessary to make it work with a Sag pump. I was pretty convinced that I could do it, but then people started talking about getting the Explorer pump to work correctly. So, I gave up on the idea - especially considering that I had never gotten around to installing it to begin with.

I never thought about fabricating a completely new bracket. It seems like the space constraints would be the biggest challenge. I'd like to see what you eventually come up with if you attempt this.

 

[EricLar80]

Yeah, I saw that too. That is a good solution of course, but you have to be willing to cut the inner fender...

The saginaw really is huge, especially the serpentine pulley coming in at about 6.5".

Eric

 

[lonesouth]

still can't figure out why people don't like the explorer pump. The two bronco's I've had with them have been flawless.

 

[tacobronco]

You don't need to route the hose like in the photo in the first post - just use a shorter section and take a direct route in front of the pump. Been running mine like that for a decade with no issues. I don't know the P/N or application of the hose I'm using, but I can look it up if need be, or I'm sure it's been posted multiple time here on CB. If hose routing is your main issue with the explorer pump, finding a better hose is a whole lot easier than designing your own bracket for a saginaw pump!

 

[lonesouth]

I need to take my hose in and match it up. I've not found one that fits better. I'll get a better pic later, but you can see it in this one.

 

[toddz69]

If someone still has good contact info for Brian Wickert, he put a Saginaw pump on his Explorer setup years ago.....

Todd Z.

 

[KyleQ]

still can't figure out why people don't like the explorer pump. The two bronco's I've had with them have been flawless.

Yeah - I think the pump is fine, PSC even can boost the output, so going after a Sag isn't really needed, espically being that it won't fit nice. I want to get the TC-style pump mounted low as I'm sure the bracket would sell like hotcakes!

 

[EricLar80]

still can't figure out why people don't like the explorer pump. The two bronco's I've had with them have been flawless.

I have not had any issues, really. It is more that I don't like all of the extra connections with the resevoir being remote, as well as having a hydroboost tee. Not to mention hose routing and getting in the way of the TFI. I did at one time try mounting the explerer pump where the AC goes, but the pump didn't like having to be clocked 180, which was required due to the remote reservoir and the fluid input port to the pump.

Maybe you can get a better picture of your upper radiator hose? I dont really see a way to keep it from rubbing the pulley on the steering pump when the pump is in the stock location and the hose routed in front. Maybe my issue is the higher deck height with a 351?

It's also possible that I am looking for other options for the fun of doing something different.

Eric

 

[EricLar80]

If someone still has good contact info for Brian Wickert, he put a Saginaw pump on his Explorer setup years ago.....

Todd Z.

Yeah, he had tube rig without many constraints on space. Looks like he modified the stock bracket from the explorer to use it's idler pulley. I considered that as well, even to far as to buy an extra explorer bracket and hack it up. I am still considering that, but it is less likely that I can get the pump to fit. Would probably be cheaper, though.

 

[xcntrk]

WH now sells high volume Explorer pumps, both 1500 & 1600 PSI models, for those who need more power and use the serp setup.

I also noticed in their latest catalog a Sag/Delphi pump bracket for the Mustang serp. I wonder if that's compatible or can be modified to work with Explorer serp?

 

[toddz69]

I also noticed in their latest catalog a Sag/Delphi pump bracket for the Mustang serp. I wonder if that's compatible or can be modified to work with Explorer serp?

The Saginaw bracket for the Mustang serpentine kit won't work with the Explorer setup. Our own "lars" here designed that bracket.

Todd Z.

 

[tacobronco]

I have not had any issues, really. It is more that I don't like all of the extra connections with the resevoir being remote, as well as having a hydroboost tee. Not to mention hose routing and getting in the way of the TFI. I did at one time try mounting the explerer pump where the AC goes, but the pump didn't like having to be clocked 180, which was required due to the remote reservoir and the fluid input port to the pump.

Maybe you can get a better picture of your upper radiator hose? I dont really see a way to keep it from rubbing the pulley on the steering pump when the pump is in the stock location and the hose routed in front. Maybe my issue is the higher deck height with a 351?

It's also possible that I am looking for other options for the fun of doing something different.

Eric

Here are some pics of my setup. The hose is a Goodyear XL60625. I just googled it and the first hit was 70EB's thread here:
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80131
Don't remember if it came with the corrugated shield or I got that somewhere else. It is close to the pulley, but has never touched it. I suppose slight differences in setup (body lift, motor mounts, 351, etc.) might affect that.

Also, Brian Wickert's original serpentine write-up suggests (D)71281 from Pep Boys for the upper radiator hose.

I'm also using a remote reservoir from an 80's vintage BMW I found in the junkyard. Liked it because it had a filter built into the bottom of it, and being BMW, it will be available forever!

Of course it you just want to put a Saggy pump on Explorer brackets, I'll be the first to admire your work!

 

[KyleQ]

WH now sells high volume Explorer pumps, both 1500 & 1600 PSI models, for those who need more power and use the serp setup.

I also noticed in their latest catalog a Sag/Delphi pump bracket for the Mustang serp. I wonder if that's compatible or can be modified to work with Explorer serp?

Yeah - I had PSC build that setup for me and now WH sells it. I'll tell you one thing - that pump paired to the Explorer reservoir doesn't properly feed my full hydro...

 

[broncoitis]

Isn't the upper hose that you all are thinking of from something like a 68 Pontiac GTO or something like that???? I know that I used something like that on my build to keep it from having to go around the back of the resevoir. Gonna go through my build because I know I mentioned the car somewhere in there. %)

A bit snug but it clears how I used it eventually.

Yes, the hose that I used is from a 68 Pontiac GTO 400 Cubic Inch Radiator Hose and it worked out great.

 

[lonesouth]

I couldn't get the GTO hose to work for me...

 

[surfer-b]

I just used the original Bronco upper hose, a piece of 1.5" with about a 30* bend, and a gates reducer bushing pt# 26391 1.75" to 1.5". I cut most of the part that fits on the radiator so the hose would fit closer to it, placed the bushing on the rad neck and installed the hose, it works great.

 

[KyleQ]

I used an Explorer radiator and modified the original upper and a modified powerstroke lower - looks like you guys used a different radiator...